Potassium Bromate in the flour

Discussion in 'The Think Tank' started by peacenloaf, Sep 21, 2011.

  1. Steve

    Steve Active Member

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    We changed to unbromated and unbleached. We didn't have to do anything different to our recipe
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  2. brad randall

    brad randall Active Member

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    I spoke with a "flour guy" at a Food Show last month about making the switch. He advised adding more yeast (1 oz per 25lbs of flour) to compensate for the lost lift of the missing Bromate.

    Tom talked about Bromate in this old thread too: http://thinktank.pmq.com/threads/unbromated-flour-vs-regular-flour.17002/ and he had a "Bromance" article on the other pizza magazine that I won't link here, it sounds like he agrees with Steve's assessment for most circumstances.
     
  3. Tom Lehmann

    Tom Lehmann Well-Known Member

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    You might see a slight impact of not using a bromated flour if you are running your cold fermentation times out to 5-days or more, but even then, the amount of bromate used is so small that this is even questionable. Back in the 60's when we were using KBRO3 at 45 to 65 parts per million (ppm) you could definitely see a difference in dough strength with very long fermented doughs but at 12 ppm and less you will be hard pressed to see any significant difference.
    Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
     
  4. pizzaadmin

    pizzaadmin Member

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    In Our restaurant, We also use lots of ingredients in pizza. The potassium bromate change sour taste in pizza dough.
     
  5. Tom Lehmann

    Tom Lehmann Well-Known Member

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    I've never heard of potassium bromate (at safe and sane levels) impacting the flavor of bread or pizza crusts. Back in the day when we were using 65 ppm of bromate we would always detect a slight chlorine like flavor in the bread (my assistant used to say it smelled like a swimming pool) he was right. But today we are only using around 12 ppm at which level the residual bromate in measured in ppb (parts per billion).
    Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
     
  6. riverside90

    riverside90 Member

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    Is this why every time I tried kasl flour I could never get a good lift or rise? I’m at .4 Idy and use all trumps. But with the same recipe with kasl it was a flat dough.


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  7. Tom Lehmann

    Tom Lehmann Well-Known Member

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    It could also be a characteristic of the wheat that the KASL flour is milled from (lower fermentation tolerance).
    Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
     
  8. riverside90

    riverside90 Member

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    So it’s necessary to use more yeast? I know pizza operations that use kasl and I have seen their dough balls rise a decent amount. Mine stayed flat and didn’t have much of a oven spring.


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  9. Tom Lehmann

    Tom Lehmann Well-Known Member

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    Can you provide any pictures of your "flat" dough balls? Additionally, keep in mind that the tighter you round the dough balls the better they will retain their round/ball like shape. Cross-stacking as well as cross-stack time and the temperature of the cooler/retarder (36 to 40F) are also important to keeping the dough balls from flattening out.
    Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
     
  10. riverside90

    riverside90 Member

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    I do roll my dough balls tight and even. I’m pretty ocd about that. Also cross stack for about 30mins before putting them to rest. By flat it look like the dough has melted down if that makes any sense. It goes from being a round ball to a flat circle. But not completely flat like a pancake.


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  11. Tom Lehmann

    Tom Lehmann Well-Known Member

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    A typical cross-stack time is in the 1.5 to 2-hour range. Insert a thermometer into one of the dough balls in the center of the box and measure its temperature, it is not ready to be down-stacked until the temperature is in the 50 to 55F range assuming not more than 48-hours refrigerated storage is desired, if you want to add an extra day to that shoot for a solid 50F.
    Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
     
  12. Mike

    Mike Member

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    @Tom Lehmann our Puratos rep says that out pizza dough recipe will work the same with unbromated flour, but the thinks we'll have to adjust our hoagie roll recipe. He said mixing longer and adding a little bit more yeast is a good place to start. Do you have any other advice? He's sending us 10 bags on Monday to play with :). Currently using "Commander" flour from ADM for rolls and "Gigantic" from ADM for pizza dough, would love to switch to an unbleached unbromated product.
     
  13. Tom Lehmann

    Tom Lehmann Well-Known Member

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    Most hoagie rolls are made using a very short fermentation process, usually in the 60 to 90-minute range, I would have a hard time believing that anyone would see any benefit from using a bromated flour (today's bromate level) in this type of dough unless it was made using one of the high speed mixing systems such as Stephan or Exact Mixing.
    In cases where the use of an oxidant such as potassium bromate is justified but can't be used for whatever reason, there are some very effective bromate replacers based on the use of oxidative enzymes (consumer friendly), that being the case check with Corbion Ingredients, Lenexa, KS.
    Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor