Problem with dough

Discussion in 'The Think Tank' started by GT, Jan 11, 2018.

  1. GT

    GT Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    johnson city NY
    i have been baking pizzas on pans for years because I can't get my dough to bake properly on screens which I would prefer to use. If I take a dough ball and let it sit out for about half hour then stretch it out on the screen, , make and bake the pizza, when it comes out and put in a box or serving pan, you can literally watch it collapse. We bake for 6:45 at 540 degrees. Where am I going wrong?
     
  2. Tom Lehmann

    Tom Lehmann Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,774
    Likes Received:
    210
    Since you are specific about the baking time I must assume that you are using an air impingement oven. From what you have briefly described it could well be that you don't have the correct finger profile for the type of pizza that you are making.
    Identify the top and bottom finger profiles (each finger will have a number and you will also need to note the position of each finger from entry to exit end of the oven. You might have the wrong fingers or you might have the right fingers but they're located in the wrong position. This is more common than many might want to admit as it is easy to reassembly the fingers in the wrong position after the oven has been disassembled for periodic cleaning. This is why I always encourage everyone with an air impingement oven to make a finger map and place it on the oven so when it is reassembled it goes back together in the same manner as it was originally profiled.
    Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
     
  3. Tom Lehmann

    Tom Lehmann Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,774
    Likes Received:
    210
    One other thing to add to my previous post, if you are baking on a solid pan that pan will bake slower than a screen so it is possible if your dough is already weak, for whatever reason, the screen would give more oven spring during baking which might be over extending the structure of the dough causing it to collapse as it begins to cool (almost immediately after removing the pizza from the oven), while a pan would result in a slower, more gentle bake resulting in less oven spring, less over extension of the dough structure resulting in less of a chance of the dough collapsing after baking. Pictures of your pizzas baked on a pan and on a screen (top and bottom pictures) would be a great help in providing clues as to just what might be happening.
    Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
     
  4. GT

    GT Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    johnson city NY
    Hi Tom,
    Thanks for responding. Can you pm me your email so I can send you pics? Says they are too large to post here. I am using mm ps360q ovens that I purchased from a Domino's that was upgrading. They are set up exactly as shown on the stickers on the front of the oven. I will send pic of those as well.
    Thanks again,
    GT
     
  5. GT

    GT Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    johnson city NY
    Also would like to add tha when using the pans, we place rolled out skins on the pans and let raise for at least 45 minutes. ( less when warm out)
     
  6. URNUTS

    URNUTS Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    134
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    What is the issue when you tried to use screens?
    DP uses screens so, aside from dough formulation, should be a similar set-up.
     
  7. GT

    GT Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    johnson city NY
    I would tend to agree with that. Or could be in some other way that we are handling the dough. Also not really fond of the way a D Pizza comes out in their bake. I am really trying to achieve a crust that resembles being baked on a deck where the bottom under the cheese is done and you can see the small air pockets in the dough all fully cooked.
     
  8. Tom Lehmann

    Tom Lehmann Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,774
    Likes Received:
    210
    Gt;
    You might consider trying this:
    1) Delete any sugar, eggs, or milk for your dough formula.
    2) Set the oven temperature at 500F.
    3) Set the baking time at 5-minutes and 45-seconds.
    4) Open the dough by hand tossing or sheeting to within 2-inches of full diameter and opening to full diameter by hand stretching/tossing.
    5) Place the opened dough skin on a Hearth Bake Disk (Lloyd Pans)
    6) Dress and bake.

    These disks were developed specifically to achieve the closest thing to a deck oven hearth bake possible in an air impingement oven.
    Note:
    You may need to adjust the baking time depending upon the crust color you are looking for. The solid edge of the disk will prevent the development of a "pizza bone" and the large holes will give you the spotty bottom characteristic of a deck oven bake. Since all ovens are different you might also need to experiment a little with the baking temperature but 500F will be pretty close.
    Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
     
  9. URNUTS

    URNUTS Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    134
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    I've used (or tried) the HB discs and was not that impressed- close(r) to a deck bake bake but not that close.
    That said- if you HAVE the MM or AI oven(s), then the HB disc may be the best you can do.
    Never liked the DP bake but I've never really had a screen pie that I thought had an impressive crust from a bake standpoint.
     
  10. GT

    GT Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    johnson city NY
    Thanks Tom but I would like to know how to get a good bake without buying a bunch of expensive discs. Lots of places use screens and can make a good pie that has a good bake. PJ's always has a good bake and they use screens. I am just trying to figure out how to do it.
     
  11. Tom Lehmann

    Tom Lehmann Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,774
    Likes Received:
    210
    Well, that's a matter for discussion, personally I think their pizzas would benefit GREATLY from another 30 to 45-seconds bake time, and their bake doesn't come close to resembling a deck oven bake. Years ago Big Dave (Ostrander), Evelyn Slomon and I did a LOT of work over about a year period of time trying to achieve a deck oven type of bake from an air impingement oven using screens as that is what everyone was using at the time. The best we were able to muster was about 80% of the way there. This is what drove me to begin experimenting with the use of baking disks which ultimately led to the development of the Hearth Bake Disk before we had a pizza that was really hard to distinguish between air impingement oven baked and deck oven baked. Where we left off at the screen was using a baking temperature of 485F and a baking time of 6.5-minutes (that time will vary due to differences in ovens). The doughs were formulated with 2% sugar and they were fermented in the cooler for 48-hours, allowed to warm to 50F at room temperature before the dough balls were opened into skins by hand, dressed and baked. I don't know what the difference is in finger profile between Domino's and P.J.'s so I can't be specific as to what changes might be needed to dough formulation or baking to replicate a P.J.'s type of bake (they both use proprietary finger profiles).
    Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
     
  12. GT

    GT Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    johnson city NY
    Thanks Tom