Hi my name is Gaston and i am from Argentina. I´m starting a business of prebaked pizza for the delivery´s pizza on my city. i am offering three variety of pizza, thin crust (300g) , thick crust (370g) , and a square pizza of 12 slices (500g) . My procedure is make the dough, them separate it, make them rest, make the disk and them cooked it. My problem for all the pizzas are the bubbles and for the thick variety is that isnt thick enough. I would like to be spongy and with big holes (Sorry about my english). About the recipe i am working with your %, but what i´m really wanted to know if , there is a chance to make the douch and cooked it on the same day without make them rest for a day.
Another question is what if i give the recipe al least 60% of water or 63%. What affects that to my dough??
Gaston;
Welcome to PMQ!
If you have the refrigeration space to inventory a days supply of dough balls, refrigerating the dough overnight will be the best way to manage it. If you don’t have sufficient refrigeration space, try this approach:
Mix your dough, portion it into desired weight pieces, oil the dough pieces with vegetable oil and place into individual plastic bags (twist the end of the bags to close and tuck it under the dough ball to hold it closed. Place the bagged dough balls ont a sheet pan to hold them. Allow the dough balls to rest for 2.5 to 3-hours at room temperature. Then turn the dough balls out of the plastic bag(s) into a bowl of flour and begin shaping into dough skins. For the thin crust, place onto screens or disks and then place onto a wire tree rack in the cooler to inventory the dough skins until needed. To use these dough skins, just remove from the cooler as needed, and turn out onto the bench with a little dusting flour and finish opening the dough to the full, desired size, dress as needed and bake. For the thick crust pizza, place the opened dough piece into an oiled pan or baking disk/dish and allow to set at room temperature for about 20 to 30-minutes, then take to the cooler for storage. The dough will be ready to use after two hours in the cooler. You can use the dough directly from the cooler, just remove, dress as needed and bake. Note: You may need to adjust your baking time and temperature for both the thin and thick crusts as you will now be working with colder dough. Make sure your deep-dish/thick crust pizza pans are dark in color as this helps in the proper baking of the pizzas.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
The trouble with the bubbles it is all refer to the time that i have to rest the dough??
What is the influence of the water on the dough. What if i use 60 or 65% ??
and for last the thickness of the pizza it has nothing to do with the % of yest; i use 0.2 for the thin crust and 0.5 for the thick one. I have to give some time to rise to have big cells of air and have spongy consistency??
Recipe thin Crust.
Flour 100%
water 57%
Salt 2%
Sugar 2%
Yest 0.2 %
Olive oil 1%
Sunflower oil 2%
Thick crust
Flour 100%
Yeast 0.5 %
Water 57%
Sugar 3%
Salt 2%
Olive oil 1%
Sunflower oil 2%
I cooked all of them on my conveyor oven at 280°C for about 2´30". Please tell me if i could correct something to do better and to have a great pizza without bubbles and great taste.
Thanks a lot for your trouble and for all your help.
Gaston;
To get the bubbling under control, you must give the dough at least 2.5-hours of fermentation time. When we ferment the dough overnight in the cooler, bubbles are seldom a problem, that’s why I suggested the overnight route if at all possible, but if its not possible, then go with at least 2.5-hours fermentation at room temperature. Your total water at 57% looks fine. The more water you add, within reason, the crispier your finished crust will become. To get the appearance and textural properties you’re looking for in the thick crust, you will need to allow the dough to proof/rise for a period of time after shaping and before dressing. Most of us find a proofing time of 45 to 70-minutes typically gives us the characteristics you are looking for (open, porous, large holes and tender eating with a crispy bottom).
One final thought; It has been a number of years since I’ve been to Argentina, and I don’t remember if your flour is milled to a high level of starch damage or not (starch damage is high at 12% and higher). If the flour has a high level of starch damage, it will exhibit high absorption properties, but as the dough ferments, it will soon turn to a thick, sticky soup (this only takes about 3-hours). If you see this happening, let me know as we will need to take an entirely different approach.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
As always thanks for all, and I will let you know what happened with the bubbles and the thick pizza. I´am not dressing the pizza, only tomato sauce, and then each pizza restaurant or delivery do the other part.
Could be possible that the oven were too high? referring to the bubbles. I´m not too worried about the bubbles as it seems, but i wanted to deliver to my clients a great quality pizza, like I saw on pizza hut page, with no bubbles on the edge. I don´t know if that photograph its real but it looks like a good quality pizza.
Ohhhh, so now the whole srtory comes out…You’re making a par-bake crust.
Yes, oven temperature can have a lot to do with bubbling of a par-baked crust. We like to par-bake thick crusts at around 425 to 450F, not much higher as the higher temperature tends to promote bubbling.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
Hi, tom I am going to tell you what i did and what was the results. I made the thick crust par-bake pizza.
With this recipe: 100% flour, 0.5 Dry Yeast, 57% Water, 2% salt, 3% sugar, 1% olive oil, and 2% sunflower oil. After mix all like you always taught. i separated the dough on balls of 370g and 390g. I let them rest with oil under and all over it in a Tupperware for almost 4 hours. With that time it rose pretty good, and them i shaped and let it on a pan. Let them rest another one hour and thirty minutes, but it didn’t rise a thing, just a little. A put sauce over it and cooked at 230°C for 3´37". It was OK, not as good as i wanted, because it didn’t rise a lot. The bubbles problem was OK just a little from the bottom, but maybe the problem was after shaping the dough and let it on the pan.
My question, i need a little more yeast to rise a little more??
On my conveyor oven it is better to cooked on a short time with high temperature or otherwise? I will be cooking a lot of par-bake pizzas, but i wanted quality too.
Please tell me what is the best option for this matter.
The other answer you wrote i didnt understand what you mean about starch damage.
Gaston;
What type of dry yeast did you use? If it was active dry yeast, did you pre-hydrate it in 100F/37.7C water for about 10-minutes before you used it? What was the finished/mixed dough temperature? Your dough formula, properly managed, should be able to support at least 6-hours of fermentation at room temperature. After panning the dough, look for it to about double in height during the proofing period.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
I really don´t know if it is instant dry yeast or active dry yeast (The name is Puratos dry yeast). It says that it can be rehydrating or not because it has a rehydrating agent. It makes a lot of differences to rehydrate or not??
My dough temperature was 26°C but them when i shape it, it became a little colder. The yeast amount it was ok??
Gaston;
I’d like to see the dough temperature just a little higher, at 27 to 28C (not a big deal). As for the yeast, what do the bag directions say? Is there any type of word or contracted form of the word “instant” such as “insta”? Or, does it just say “active dry yeast”. If that is the case, then you will need to pre-hydrate it before adding into the dough. The best way to do this is to remove two cups of water from your regular dough water, then draw two cups of warm water from the tap (remember, you want it to be between 100 and 105F/37.7 and 40.5C. Stir the dry yeast into the warm water, allow it to set for 10-minutes, then stir it once more and add it to the mixer along with the rest of the water for making the dough. Proceed with making the dough in your normal manner.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
Hi, tom, I`m back!. Sorry to ask you for several subjects but meanwhile i am trying to start my business with great quality of products. The yeast is instant yeast, and on the bag it says that you may or may not hydrate the yeast. About the dough weight that i use for the thin crust par-bake pizza is 320g for the 34cm pan. And for the thick par-bake pizza 370 for the 34cm pan. I would ask you if that is right or not?.
I´m still having troubles with the thick pizza. It has not risen what i expected to, only 15 or 20 mm and i would like to reach 25 or 30 mm, but i really wanted to be spongy and with big holes. I don´t know if i have to increase the yeast(0.5g) a little bit or the dough weight.
Between my two recipes of thin crust pizza and the thick one, the only differences are the yeast thin (0.20g) thick (0.50g) and the sugar %, thin (2%) thick (3%), with only this differences I am doing right??
As i have to cooked over 300 pizzas each day, i need an advice. Before i talked to you i cooked my par-bake pizza on my conveyor oven at 280°C for about 2´, now i try out your piece of advice to cooked them at 230°C for 3´37". There is a chance to cooked like i used to and do it right, get a great par-bake pizzas, or i´m going to have a lot of troubles for example with the bubbles??
Gaston;
Your dough weight looks to be OK for the size you are making for thin crust, but for the thick crust, you should probably be closer t 450g dough weight for the type of crust you are looking for. However, from your description, it actually sounds like you are looking for more of a Ciabatta type crust (very open, with a lot of large holes and very spongy texture). That being the case, you might want to experiment with a special dough for the thick crust. The difference in this case would be in the dough absorption. For your thick crust, try going to 65% abasorption, then 70% and finally to 75%. Keep in mind that the dough will become more batter like as you go up in dough absorption, and you will need to par-bake your thick crusts. Make the dough/batter, pour the prescribed amount into a lightly oiled, non-stick, dark colores deep-dish pan, set aside and cover, allow to proof/rise for 45 to 60-minutes, then par-bake at 425F just until the crust takes on a sandy color. Remove crust from the pan immediately after baking and cool on a wire screen. Use the dough absorption that gives you the product closest to what you are looking for.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
Gaston;
That is instant dry yeast. You have the option of hydrating it or adding it dry to the dough. When hydrating IDY, remember to hydrate it in 95F water. This is critical to optimum yeast performance. The best way to add it is to add it directly to the flour, then begin mixing. The only time I ever hydrate IDY is when the dough mixing time is less than a total of 5-minutes, such as when using a VCM or making one of my Chicago style doughs.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
Hi tom, i really have to ask about how to calculate my dough weight and how thick or thin it is wright for each pizza. I really don´t understand the measures you use.
The other thing is that I keep having troubles with the bubbles, some people said it is my dough but now i´m confusing. I try a lots of combination of temperatures and speed con the conveyor oven, but always the bubbles appear and it rise like a pita bread.
My dough balls when i keep them proof for about 3 hours they seems too gassy and today i let it rest for 30 minutes and was ok, but them on the oven, it rose again.
Multiply the flour weight times the ingredient percent that you want the weight for, then press the “%” key.
Read the ingredient weight in the display window.
Example:
Flour: 100%
Salt 1.75%
IDY: 0.375%
Water: 56%
Oil: 1%
Flour is ALWAYS equal to 100%, so all you have to do is decide how much flour you want to use. Lets say you want to use 20-pounds of flour.
Salt: 20 X 1.75 (press the “%” key and read 0.35-pounds in the display window. 0.35 X 16 = 5.6-ounces.
IDY: 20 X 0.375 (press the “%” key) and read 0.075-pounds in the display. 0.075 X 16 =1.2-ounces.
Water: 20 X 56 (press the “%” key) and read 11.2-pounds in the display window.
Oil: 20 X 1 (press the “%” key) and read 0.2-pounds. 0.2 X 16 = 3.2-ounces.
That’s all there is to it.
As for the bubbles, and your pizza into pita, , you’re going to have to call me on that one as it is most likely due to the conditions of baking. You mentioned conveyor oven. What is your baking time? are we baking completely dressed pizzas or just par-baking the crusts? What isthe baking time, and what is your top and bottom finger profile?
As you can see, there are a number of questions to be asked, but keep in mind that this past week we were at the Orlando Pizza Show and we were not docking our pizzas and we were not getting any bubbling or pocketing of our pizzas, so I know we can fix the problem, we just have to figure out what needs to be donje.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
