Chat Transcript: Menu Design with Josh Davis, March 7

We had a great chat with Josh Davis from Mail Shark today. You can find the full transcript below (Note: Please read from the BOTTOM UP). If you have any additional questions for Josh, or would like for him to send you any of the documents he referenced, he can be reached at josh@themailshark.com or 484-948-1611.

Thank you to everyone who joined in on the chat!
Liz

(Note: this is the end of the chat; start at the bottom.)
Liz Barrett, PMQ - Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:04 am
Have a good day, everyone!

Liz Barrett, PMQ - Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:04 am
Lots of good info, Daddio. You’ll enjoy.

Daddio - Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:03 am
Hi Liz, see that. I will have to read the transcript later.

Liz Barrett, PMQ - Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:01 am
Hi Daddio! We are just wrapping things up.

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:01 am
Quick thanks for everyone showing up and again sorry if i missed any questions.

Liz Barrett, PMQ - Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:01 am
We will have the full transcript of this chat in the Think Tank later today.
Daddio - Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:00 am
I am late to the show here so forgive me if this has been covered. How does one deal with simple pizzas say a pepperoni? When i didn’t have it on the menu i got Don’t you have just pepperoni

Liz Barrett, PMQ - Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:00 am
Josh, thank you so much for your time today. Please remind everyone where they can contact you.

Liz Barrett, PMQ - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:59 am
Great tips!

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:58 am
place the highest profit kids item last in the category.

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:58 am
in the middle or center positions. This is known as the serial positions effect. Studies show that when presented with a list of words you tend to remember the first few words (the primacy effect) and the last few words (the recency effect). The only exception is with kids menus. Kids always remember the last thing you tell them, so

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:58 am
to sell most first, second & last within each category. Place the lower profit items

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:58 am
category aldo does matter. You should consider placing the three items you want

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:57 am
last quick nugget I wanted to get in is about design is MENU ITEM POSITIONING: Where an item is placed in a

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:57 am
i will have it to you in 5

314 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:56 am
cool

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:55 am
yeah I am not just saying this but it is one of our favorite pieces but you can be the judge of course.

314 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:54 am
dndpizza2121@gmail.com

314 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:54 am
that would be awesome

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:53 am
Hi Dale we actually did a really amazing or what I think is amazing scratch off for black jack. I can email you a PDF proof.

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:53 am
Sorry that was crazy long but for some reason the 300 character cap is still on so I had to quckly copy and paste back

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:52 am
between the period in the description and the price

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:52 am
It also puts too much emphasis on th price. In addition by discretly movng the price of an item, it will also allow your guests to purchase what they want insted of purchasing based on price. The solution is to have prices discreetly tagged on at the end of each items description. We suggest placing the price at the end of the items description with two spaces in

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:52 am
column and find the cheapest item.

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:52 am
This allows the customer to scan right down the

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:52 am
the right of the column leading with “………”

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:52 am
the prices from lowest to highest and aligned to

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:52 am
Many pizza menus that we see still list all of

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:51 am
The way prices are listed is very important.

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:51 am
One i forgot whcih is often time a big offender on pizza menus is PRICE LISTING:

314 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:49 am
very interested in scratch cards

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:48 am
@ crusher thanks and if you are intersted in the menu engineering sheet and case studies just let me know.

Crusher - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:47 am
Thanks Josh. I’ll be contacting you soon to see about adding your New Mover Program to my current mailshark plan-Scott

Liz Barrett, PMQ - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:47 am
Thanks, GT!

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:45 am
thanks george

GT - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:45 am
Thanks Josh, and everyone else for the insight. I have to run and do lunch now. Take care all.

Liz Barrett, PMQ - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:44 am
Josh, I just switched it to a 500 character max. Hope that helps.

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:44 am
Just a quick note sorry if i missed any questions here was typing as fast as I possibly could. Thank heavens I took keyboarding in high school. If i did miss anything pleaes let me know.

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:42 am
sorry got caught with the max 300 characters again

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:42 am
to drive sales and that is just what they do. Others limit the coupons so I am not sure if ther is a one size fits all answer. However if they already have a full menu with coupons and you are offering them a box topper with coupons I am not sure that it would be detrimental to have access to antoehr coupon

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:42 am
@ Crusher that is a good question and It is a split one. I think it really depends on your model. some people offer so many coupons all the time

Crusher - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:38 am
I am wondering if they menus I give out on take-out and delivery orders should have the coupon panels in them. My thought is these customers have already ordered and are getting a box topper. Should just the direct mail ones have coupons
josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:42 am
@ Crusher that is a good question and It is a split one. I think it really depends on your model. some people offer so many coupons all the time

Crusher - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:38 am
I am wondering if they menus I give out on take-out and delivery orders should have the coupon panels in them. My thought is these customers have already ordered and are getting a box topper. Should just the direct mail ones have coupons

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:38 am
I also have an excel spreadsheet that makes the menu items evaluation process very simple. I have used it many many times. I would encourage any owner to use it for FREE before paying someone to do it. It is really very simple and give you a lot of insight at no cost

GT - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:38 am
Or are you referring to having them on menus that you hand out in your store at the counter?

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:37 am
crusher do you mean coupon panels in general or having a coupopn panel as compared to putting them another place on the menu?

Crusher - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:36 am
How do you feel about coupon panels on take-out menus?

gbh0212 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:36 am
ok great thanks!

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:35 am
anyone that wants the studies that I mentioned can you please send me an email and I will get them to you right away josh@themailshark.com

Liz Barrett, PMQ - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:35 am
OK, perfect. For those who need to leave the chat, the transcript will be available in the Think Tank later today.

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:35 am
Liz I can stick around and can always be reached at my email josh@themailshark.com or my direct line 484-948-1611

gbh0212 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:35 am
josh i would be interested in receiving those studies.

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:34 am
One important thing that I failed to talk about is really the process of menu engineering and the evaluation of each menu item in order to be able to know what you want to sell and what needs some help.

Liz Barrett, PMQ - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:34 am
Josh, we technically only had you for 30 minutes. Do you want to stick around, or is there somewhere that folks can contact you directly with more questions?

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:33 am
@ crusher yes and no. I think there is always improvments that can be made. As far as a complete redesign I would have to take a look at what you have. I have seen people change their menu so dramaticlaly that i dont’ feel like they are still in line with the brand they have built for years.

gbh0212 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:31 am
(to talk about menu design)

GT - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:31 am
It works well and is easy to use…but… You have to get stings printed, you have to sort them into bundles of 100, etc., and if you don’t do it, it doesn’t get done.

gbh0212 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:31 am
josh, do you have a booth at the international pizza show coming up soon?

Crusher - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:31 am
Josh- I seem to keep the same basic menu designs for a long time and just tweak them. Is there any benifit to a complete redesign?

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:30 am
One of the easiest menu engineering techniques to implement is removing the $ signs from the menu. This also has some evidence behind it Menus that have $ signy symbols will yield lower spending than those that do not. There is a 14 page study on this one that I can also email anyohne who is interested. Irt was done in 2009 by the Center for Hospitality Research

Liz Barrett, PMQ - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:30 am
No problem, gbh.

gbh0212 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:30 am
oh sorry!

Liz Barrett, PMQ - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:30 am
We are at our 30-minute mark.

Liz Barrett, PMQ - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:30 am
Guys, let’s stay on the menu design topic for today’s chat.

gbh0212 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:29 am
what did you think of it?

GT - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:29 am
Yes, I have

gbh0212 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:28 am
have any of you used the Every door direct mail program?

gbh0212 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:28 am
i also have another question

gbh0212 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:28 am
i also have another question

gbh0212 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:28 am
thanks for the input

gbh0212 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:28 am
ok

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:28 am
GBH yes I would consider using picutres sparingly. I think less is more. IF there are 50 photos on the menu it will take away from the draw of the important items.

Liz Barrett, PMQ - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:27 am
Photos are only a good idea if they are professionally taken and minimal, in my opinion.

paul7979 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:26 am
GBH0212 is on to something that I see all the time. Some seem to think that the more photos the better and end up with a clutteredconfusing menu.

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:26 am
Liz yes I think food images are crucial to help selling product. However, what I see all to often is picutres that don’t really look the actual food taht is being sold or the overuse of pictures

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:26 am
sorry if i missed any questions trying to type and scroll back as fast as possible

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:25 am
an example would be taking a simple "chicken bt" and calling it a “Fire Grilled Chicken bt with Grandmas BBQ sauce” . which one would you rather eat

gbh0212 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:25 am
how would you go about selecting which photos to use? Popular menu items? how many photos are too many photos?

gbh0212 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:24 am
and i think you are definitely on to something with tying together not only a enticing description but an enticing photo

gbh0212 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:24 am
yes me too! it does help.

Liz Barrett, PMQ - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:24 am
I’m guilty of ordering menu items because of their enticing descriptions.

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:24 am
what they found was that decritpive labels actually inceased the sale of items up to 27%

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:23 am
This technique acutally has some evidence behind it. There was a study done by i belive the hospitlality shcool at cornell. I think i have a copy which i can find. I know it was entitled something like Descriptive Menu Labels Effect on Sales

Liz Barrett, PMQ - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:21 am
Josh, I’m also curious about photos on menus as well.

314 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:21 am
right

gbh0212 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:21 am
can you give an example of a mouth watering description? What have you seen in the past that has been effective?

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:20 am
Dale one thing I would suggest based on a black jack menu that i just pulled (sorry if you already have this) but i would sugest to add some really mouth watering descritpons to key items instead of just listing the ingredients

Steve Green PMQ - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:20 am
Fantastic

GT - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:20 am
Thanks guys for the input and ideas. We are currently using Mail Shark and was curious what to do when our scratch off comes up in the rotation.

Patriot’sPizza - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:19 am
We’ve used scratch off’s just for he bounce back feature…

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:19 am
the free pizza for a year promo has been a hot one since the perceived value is tremendous without a huge dent to the pocket.

Steve Green PMQ - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:20 am
Fantastic

GT - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:20 am
Thanks guys for the input and ideas. We are currently using Mail Shark and was curious what to do when our scratch off comes up in the rotation.

Patriot’sPizza - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:19 am
We’ve used scratch off’s just for he bounce back feature…

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:19 am
the free pizza for a year promo has been a hot one since the perceived value is tremendous without a huge dent to the pocket.

Crusher - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:18 am
All others had $4.00 off a 16" pizza, pretty agressive discount for me.

paul7979 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:18 am
Every card won something. Had 4 different prizes and one grand prize of free pizza for a year.

GT - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:17 am
Not just scratch…but redeem.

Crusher - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:17 am
Free pizza for a year (1-14" 2-topping pizza a week)

Steve Green PMQ - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:17 am
What kind of incentive was there to get a customer to scratch?

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:16 am
Dale it sounds like your layout initally make sense. Higher profit specialties in the middle, build your own upper right. From there I would take a look at some other techniques to draw in the eye to specific items on each prospective category

GT - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:16 am
What did you guys use as a winner under the scratch off?

paul7979 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:15 am
GT, I also had a very good response from my scratchoff postcard.

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:15 am
George thanks and for the record I did not pay you to say that. LOL

Liz Barrett, PMQ - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:15 am
In the interest of getting everyone’s questions out there, Josh, would you like everyone to submit their questions now and then you can answer them one by one as time allows?

314 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:15 am
i am probably overthinking it

Crusher - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:15 am
@GT I have done 2 scratch off postcards with Mailshark= Best return rate I;ve ever had

314 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:15 am
the shops already using the design have had great results

314 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:14 am
that would be great

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:14 am
sorry had to put that in two as each message apparently has a max of 300 characters

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:14 am
I would suggest using proven eye scanning patterns to strategically place your highest gross profit dollar items & other key items. I can email you a chart that shows where the eye is drawn to on a 3 panel menu.

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:13 am
yes traditionally appetizers typically start out a menu from left and then move to the right. However, I dont’ think that should be a one size fits all strategy. Because consumers don’t read a menu like a novel, they scan through a menu.

GT - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:13 am
Josh, I see you are doing scratch off postcards now. Do they seem to get a better response rate than just coupon postcard and if so what seems to be the best winning item to use as an enticement?

314 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:09 am
ya it just seems odd to me…I see it from a traditional menu standpoint thinking those are like appetizers

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:07 am
Dale thanks are you looking for where to put the actualy sections on the menu or are you looking for info about where to place items in a specific category

314 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:06 am
my original ones i have had for years has those left and right columns reversed

314 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:05 am
middle has specialty pies, and right has Create Your Own pizza…

314 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:05 am
laft section has the add ons like wings, salads, breads, ice cream etc.

Liz Barrett, PMQ - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:05 am
Hi George!

314 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:05 am
well the ones everyone is using is a bi-fold 11x17 but internally is 3 columns

GT - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:04 am
Hello folks, George from Freschott Pizza here, Johnson City, NY

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:04 am
Regarding placement what type of menu are you doing? is it a tri fold or bi fold?

Liz Barrett, PMQ - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:04 am
Welcome to the chat, Scott.

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:03 am
Hey Dale, I am somewhat familiar with your organization we are currently working with a few Black Jack owners.

Crusher - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:03 am
Hey Guys, Scott from Great Scott’s Pizza- Mt. Horeb, WI

314 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:03 am
OK - since I am in the process of getting my menu up and going so I can start EDDM…I have a question about content placement

Liz Barrett, PMQ - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:02 am
We’ll try to keep today’s session to about 30 minutes, but feel free to hang out afterward.

314 - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:02 am
introduce myself for those who may not know - Dale - Blackjack Pizza in Longmont, Boulder and Louisville Colorado http://www.odbj.com

josh@themailshark - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:01 am
Liz thanks for hosting this. I am ready to go with any any questions.

Liz Barrett, PMQ - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:00 am
Today he’ll be answering your questions about menu design.

Liz Barrett, PMQ - Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:00 am
OK, guys. Let’s get started. I’d like to welcome Josh Davis from Mail Shark to our first chat.