Competitions Menus, J-rokk, Nick, Otis, Patriot, PT, comment

I have figured out how to get the menus and coupons my competition puts out up on the board. I would love to get your input on how to combat the pricing situation. Thanks!


Just for information. Nana Rosies just raised there price from $3.99 to $4.29 for their Large 1 topping special. I hear they do over $7000 a week and that their pizza is mediocre at best.

Ninos just raised their price from $4.99 to $5.99 on their special. They do upwards of $10,000 a week at each of their 3 stores and the pizza is very similar to Little Ceasers.

Renos has a “twin sister” named Marinas. The menus are the same. I just posted Renos here. The also do about $7000 a week.

My menu is in the folder I shared as well just for comparison.

I wanted to post these to give you guys an idea of what I am truly up agianst. I think that some people don’t really believe some of the things I have posted. Well here it is in Black and white! … 44bs4Y0Wy5

Re: Competitions Menus, J-rokk, Nick, Otis, Patriot, PT, com

OK take it easy please don’t all chime in at once. I ran out of room in the title but I welcome comments from ALL pmq’ers.

Re: Competitions Menus, J-rokk, Nick, Otis, Patriot, PT, com

I’m trying to get a screen name to log in to look at your menus. There was some sort of error at the host site. Still trying. A bit frustrating so far (15 minutes and no login yet), but not giving up.

Re: Competitions Menus, J-rokk, Nick, Otis, Patriot, PT, com


Re: Competitions Menus, J-rokk, Nick, Otis, Patriot, PT, com

Got it to open. Two things pop out immediately.

  1. Are the other menus in color before you copied them? If so, then yours will pale in the marketplace. We went to red and black to step into the color and get noticed in the SEA of full color advertising out there.

  2. The places making $7 to $10K per week have a marketing budget and a distribution plan for their menus. You don’t have the funds . . . sdo you have the distribution plan and avenues laid up yet?

As far as adding visual appeal, I might suggest making the corner where you name is a reverse color. Put a black box of some interesting shape and place white lettering in it. It breaks up the all text feel of menus. You might even try a band of black with white letting in your coupon titles. It is one of our secret design tools: … Coupon.jpg

If you are using Word or Publisher, a ‘watermark’ can also add visual impact. Just a washed out image behind everything else, or different ones here and there to highlight elements of the menu.

Our take out menu is found here. It isn’t the perfect idea, but we get really good impact with simple variations of red and black on white. We paid the same amount for printing as full-color, but our stuff stands out very well amidst all the full color ads and menus out there. … 0final.pdf

Re: Competitions Menus, J-rokk, Nick, Otis, Patriot, PT, com

got into the sight on your link, could not open the photos up either…some 3rd party software blocking for me on my Mac…

WOW ! Nana Rosies just raised there price from $3.99 to $4.29 for their Large 1 topping special.

if that is a 14" pizza, that is less than LC’s !

2 things come to my mine…distance yourself from them and develop your own great, better ingredients, more expensive customers…that way you would have few common customers, either price and volume customers or customers that want a cut above…
…otther way is to fight fire with fire…I’d get an economy cheese, sauce and toppings and price your pizza out to no more than 35% food cost…I bet you would be pretty competitive with them, and do more volume, you’d need to…
problem is, it is almost impossible to do both…
as for me, I priced my 3 sizes of pizza out to make a fair profit, with some wiggle room, around average 25% food cost…w/o consideration of your competition
then compare it with your competition, and make adjustments, ie, go to 40% food cost on an item if it would help help address a competitors similar item, and get more people in the door that would order other stuff too.
my prices faired well with the competion so I did not have to change much…only change was my 8" cheese pizza I was going to sell for $2.99, I moved it up to $3.39 because Noble Romans individual 7" pizza is $3.59…my topping are twice the price of their’s but I do not think that will change precepton in general to the customer.
I have a white pizza with ricotta cheese they do not have and priced it at $4.29…my food cost on it are not much, 32% compared to 29%, contribution to business more though
Also, at 2.99, it was the same price per sq. in as my 14" cheese pizza…some people may wise up and order a bunch of the small ones and we’d have to work harder…for the samr $ amount
I have not posted my menu on the web, but I will send it to anyone by
hope that helps,

Re: Competitions Menus, J-rokk, Nick, Otis, Patriot, PT, com

I can’t help but wonder if you’re positioning yourself in the marketplace poorly. If you are determined to compete with these guys solely on price, there is no way that you can be successful unless you downgrade your product to the point where you can sell it profitably at their price. If, on the other hand, you wish to continue selling a high quality product, you need to get away from this; if you continually compare yourself to these places, your customers cannot help but do the same. Aside from the places you mention, aren’t there any “high end” pizza establishments in your trade area? You need to make those people your competitors - if your facility does not measure up to those ones (which it probably won’t), you’ll need to market yourself as “high quality, high value” and price yourself a little bit below those prices. Unless you are in a severely depressed marketplace, there ought to be a niche there that you can fill, but you will need to successfully (and consistently) present yourself as offering a high quality product at a reasonable price.

If there are no high end pizza places in your marketplace, look at other foods: Is there a high end steakhouse? Seafood? Mexican? If the answer is yes, you have a tremendous opportunity to become the only high end player in the pizza market. If the answer’s no, then you’re in trouble: it likely means that there is little if any demand for anything but the cheapest food anyone can find. I doubt that’s the case, however.

Re: Competitions Menus, J-rokk, Nick, Otis, Patriot, PT, com


Re: Competitions Menus, J-rokk, Nick, Otis, Patriot, PT, com

Thanks for the responses so far. A few things. Yes Nana Rosies just raised their 14" large from $3.99 to $4.29 and yes it is cheaper than ceasers. No there is not a real high end pizza place in my area. It IS a severely depressed economy. I am in a suburb of Detroit which of course is in Michigan which as you may know is in the depths of a One State Depression. They are starting to call us Michissippi. Volkswagon just announced they were leaving Michigan. POOF there go another 1000 jobs! I am in Wayne County, home to the most foreclosures in the country. So I would have to say YEAH we are in a severely depressed area. That all being said we were also the only Pizzeria in Taylor to be nominated for the WDIV Best of Detroit award. (Here is the link to my store ) Now I know that we didn’t win. I’m sure one of the franchises like Jets or Hungry Howies or Buddys won it by sheer numbers, but out of 60 odd pizza places in Taylor we were the ONLY one even nominated! People love our pizza. But darn it these other guys (who are all Arabic-owned, just as an FYI) have money up the wazoo to advertise. Yes the menus were full color but I faxed them to my efax and then saved them as pdf’s so I could share them. Their food really does stink. And you can hardly understand some of the time when they answer the phone because of the accent. But I’ll be gosh darned if they don’t kick some serious booty!

Funny story there is a real famous clown around here named Bobo the clown. He does a lot of work. He ordered the other day and said he loves pizza and calzones and figured that he would give us a try. He said he heard good things but that he was from NY and had yet to go to a pizza place in Michigan twice cause most of it stinks! I told him I looked forward to seeing him again soon. He kind of chuckled and said if it was GREAT he would be back, but don’t hold my breath unless I look good in blue. Well guess who came rolling up today? Yup BOBO! He said it was the “most outstanding calzone I have ever had, bar none! now he was gonna try our pizza.” I told him thanks and that I would see him next week. That is a very common occurence. People have been trained to hear “we have the best pizza and best prices in town” and the price is low but so is the quality of the pizza so they go on to the next place with a low price and a promise. Unfortunately now so many people are broke and losing their jobs they figure why keep being disappointed and have decided to go with the devils they know.

I have some ideas on multi-color menus. Price really is the thing holding me back. If I can get some school night fundraisers going that could give us a kick in the pants and I could use the increased revenues to print some nicer menus. I can snowball upwards. It is just a matter of catching a couple of breaks.

Keep those analysis coming I sure as hell need the help!

Re: Competitions Menus, J-rokk, Nick, Otis, Patriot, PT, com

I am still curious why you are hell bent on bailing the ocean with a teacup. In such an enormously depressed area with SO MANY competitors to fight against, it seems a Pyrrhic victory at best if you even survive the year.

That said, your will is admirable, and your anecdotal stories are great victories. Where is the money to come from in order to market enough to survive? I caught the aspersions about "arabic owned. All I care about is that they are adequately capitalized to succeed in this feeding frenzy of a marketplace. they are succeeding and thriving . . . and you will need to fight to take business away from these several dozen competitors to make it yourself . . . without market funds. I am sure it can be done, and I am sure success can come. . . .

I am concerned for you that there aren’t many new creative ideas from the folks here. your marketplace is different than mine and a lot of the ones I have learned about by reading here. You will be challenged to take what has worked for us and mold it into the world you trade in.

Re: Competitions Menus, J-rokk, Nick, Otis, Patriot, PT, com

Hey Nick,

Yeah I am hyper competitive and refuse to lose! Sometimes it doesn’t serve me too well. I know what you mean about a lot of the ideas here just not really being relevant to my market. I sooooo wish I was in markets like most everyone else has but I am stuck in Michigan like so many other folks.

Anyone else have any idea on how to combat these guys? I would love to hear Jrokk, Patriot and Pizzatimes thoughts! Come on Jim take a look and let me know!



PS Good luck with your opening Otis!

Re: Competitions Menus, J-rokk, Nick, Otis, Patriot, PT, com

I am trying to come up with something that might work.
Obviously, doing the same thing is a hard way to go.

I think only doing something different, sticking out in the crowd, and getting that word out is effective

what your USP, unique selling proposition, is or should be, I do not know, but
get one and blast it out…wish I could help more, details and implementation take much effort…

my USP is “great pizza made well”
and my pizza story is on the back of my menu of what’s in their pizza, what is not, and some things about how it is made…
…some of the things, other pizzerias do too, I just let them know I do
ie, about my dough, my sauce my cheese…

I do not even know if it is a good USP, wish it was more simple, like
“30 minute or less or it’s free”, “better ingredients, better pizza”
those were great ones,

hope that helps,

Re: Competitions Menus, J-rokk, Nick, Otis, Patriot, PT, com

You know with our name being Wiseguys Pizza I thought about “Try our pizza…or else!” LOL!

Re: Competitions Menus, J-rokk, Nick, Otis, Patriot, PT, com

Kyle, being from Detroit & having work thru the Flint auto shut-down, I don’t think you’d like my input

there are many successful pizza operations, like Buddy’s, Jets, Buscemis…

Re: Competitions Menus, J-rokk, Nick, Otis, Patriot, PT, com


Raise your prices and differentiate.

Find a saturation vehicle to advertise the difference. Spend the mony. Do a direct mail. Hit at least 2k addresses a week. Get the word out.

Stop working for free.

Re: Competitions Menus, J-rokk, Nick, Otis, Patriot, PT, com

Kyle - you deserve better.

Does that statement resonate at all with you … I’m betting that it would resonate with the people living in your area. Rather than competing directly with these guys on price, I think that making your USP “Because you deserve better!” could help make a difference. I’d even make it part of your “4 walls marketing”. Get a nice poster made telling how you remember how great pizza was when you were a kid, how all these low price places drove out the mom & pops that you remember selling such great pizza, and that’s what made you decide that the people around here deserve better. Do a google search to buy a poster from that old Eastwood movie “For a Few Dollars More” - use it on another wall with some more prose differentiating yourself from the pack … “How do they sell pizza so cheap? You don’t wanna know!” "For a Few Dollars More, you can have pizza made the way God intended (go on to describe how you make it). Fight fire with fire; if they’re going to market theirs as the “best pizza”, you need to call them on it as loudly and as often as you can! If there’s a closeby radio station, let them know of your plight - ask them to conduct an on-air test of the various pizzas in the market (including yours). Unless one of your competitors is a major radio buyer, they probaly could be convinced to try it.

People living in a depressed area will tend to begin dwelling on how life has shat upon them - they’ve worked hard, they’ve done right by their friends, their families, and they deserve better. They can’t afford a new car, or a nicer apartment, or even a fancy meal out, but they ought to be able to treat themselves to a high quality pizza every now and then. That’s the niche you need to fill. If you can’t, you may as well get while the getting’s good.

Re: Competitions Menus, J-rokk, Nick, Otis, Patriot, PT, com

Duggy 1983

Great thoughts

NY Pizza

Man you have nailed it in one.

A great post with a great message on how to make Kyle stand out from the rat pack.


If you do nothing else look at what NY Pizza has said and work something out along those ideas. You mightn’t sell $10,000 a week but you will sure do a lot more than now and maybe even get yourself a reasonable wage out of it.


Re: Competitions Menus, J-rokk, Nick, Otis, Patriot, PT, com

Bottom line is that you gotta find some money of some sort somewhere to market the pace. There are spectacular ideas bouncing around here that could make a huge difference . . . if you have a little $$$ to do them. Without spending the money at the front end, it is d@mned hard to drive business or potential customers to your store.

Which suggestions offered up here are you putting in place so far? Actively doing something to implement . . . not just thinking about doing.

Re: Competitions Menus, J-rokk, Nick, Otis, Patriot, PT, com

WOW! Talk about sending a chill up and down my spine! You guys are right! I DO DESERVE BETTER! I absolutely LOVE the idea!

I was thinking along those lines already but just could not figure a way to make it sound good. THis is exactly what I was looking for! And the way NY fleshed it out about people feeling shat upon and how they react, well I completely agree and resemble that remark! When I read the first line of the post “Kyle, you deserve better!” I said to myself “Dang right I do!”

OK I gotta get some sleep now but I really like this a lot.



Re: Competitions Menus, J-rokk, Nick, Otis, Patriot, PT, com

Whoosh!!! The jet has flown straight overhead yet again.