I’ve been trying to figure this out for a couple of weeks now through trial and error. My dough balls are getting water building up on them and condensation inside the trays. They also seem to be rising more than they used to almost to the point that they are unusable by day 2.
Heres my formula:
62% h2o at 93-95 degrees
50 pounds flour from my walk in cooler
4% vegetable oil
.025% instant dry yeast
Water in the bowl first, then flour, then salt, sugar, and yeast so they aren’t touching each other. Mix 45-60 seconds and add the oil slowly. Continue to mix 7-8 minutes. Ending dough temperature is always between 79-83 degrees. Immediately the dough is made into balls and placed 6 to a tray. They are then crosstacked in my walk in cooler for 60-90 minutes. Then rearranged until over night.
I thought it might have been my walk in cooler temperature causing them to rise, but it sits at 36 degrees and so does the dough.
I used to vary my water temperature based on the ambient/flour temperature in the room using this chart i made by trial and error. But this summer i decided to place the flour in the cooler, and then i would only need a set water temperature due to the flour temperature being constant. I dont know if this is the problem or not. I do believe this problem arose right around the time that i chose to refrigerate the flour. I assumed it was ending dough temperature coming at too high or something but its not.
If someone would like a picture of the dough after being refrigerated i can supply one. Its very sticky and looks blown but its not. Im lost and need a hand here.
Try cross stacking the dough for an extra hour or so. Play with this time till you have your dough is ending up the way you like. At that point start checking the dough temp when you down stack (nest the dough trays)and instead of using time as a reference of when to down stack, start using temperature. My alternate suggestion would be to drop your yeast amount slightly till you get the desired final product.
H2O temp seems a bit high - try 80…
IMHBCO - the yeat is also high - I use 1.5 oz for 50#
Also, no need to fool w/order of ingred - dump the H20 in, then flour begin mixing, add other dry & wait a couple of minutes for the oil…
I don’t cross stack my dough trays at all, but I also use H2O from the walk-in
What would be an ideal internal temperature to shoot for in my dough balls prior to stacking properly?
Ive been using that amount of yeast for years now without a problem until now. In fact, all of those measurements are the same for a long period of time. Only recently, however, have i noticed this water condensation problem though.
Cross stacking your dough boxes will take care of the condensation problem. We recommend that the boxes be cross stacked for a minimum of 2-hours with dough balls weighing up to 16-ounces. Over that, we suggest going to 3-hours before down stacking and nesting. A good finished dough temperature is in the 80 to 85F range. Also, since you haven’t been cross stacking, you have probably been reducing your yeast level in an effort to keep the dough from blowing in the boxes. This means that you will probably need to increase the yeast level a bit. Normal yeast level for 50-pounds of flour would be 3-ounces of IDY or 4-ounces of ADY or 8-ounces of compressed yeast. Your 1.5-ounce level is about right for what we see when the yeast is reduced to control blowing. If you stay at the lower level, your dough will not exhibit the desired rise during baking and you may end up with a gum line as a result.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
Can you clarify whether you are downstacking your dough boxes? You mentioned crossstacking but not downstacking.
Also, is 0.025% IDY a correct value? For 50 pounds of flour (800 ounces), 0.025% IDY is 0.2 ounces. That is less than 2 teaspoons.
We had a bout of this when we opened our new store…after trying a million things it was by pure chance we moved the location we stored them in the cooler…it solved the problem. I am not sure if this was what acually fixed it but it hasn’t happened since. (The stacks were directly by the cold air blower)
Maybe try moving it.
No, that percentage is not an accurate value. Its actually .5% yeast. Its 1/4 lb of IDY into 50 lb of flour. My mistake.
I will try the longer crosstacking like tom and others recommended and post back next week to see if that was the problem. I have been cross stacking, for only 60- 90 minutes however. I am using one more ounce than the recommended 3 ounces. I haven’t had a problem with yeast levels in the past. In fact, i pulled that yeast percentage from a dough seminar i attended in las vegas 2 years ago at the pizza expo.
Patriots: If i tried a water temperature of 80 my finished dough would end at like 60 degrees. I use a high water temperature because my flour is kept cold, not ambient. Patriot, what is your dough temperature after coming out of the mixer? If i didnt cross stack, they would be blown in like 2 hours.
I thought the problem had to do with flour in the walkin absorbing moisture out of the air in there and then that adding to the water percentage so this last dough we did we cut the h2o down to just under 60% to see if thats the problem.
Ill try the longer cross stacking and then get back to yas later this week when i can see the results.
Thanks for all the good advice.
CiCi’s runs their H2O temp @ 80 for their dough - make it/ball it/sheet pan it/saran wrap it/ works well for them…
I use cold H2O from the walk-in & All Trumps flour - kept in the shop…
I don’t cross stack, but we do floor proof our dough daily as needed…
We make our dough for two/three days in advance