Confused, 1200 sf. or 2400? need pinoins.

I have two choices. 1200 sf. no dine in. sell a heck of $5 pizza. smaller rent. less risk. less responsibility. less(california) labour w/no dine in. easier management. smaller investment. this is the way majors are going and transforming the future of pizza industry.

Or go with 2400 sf. with dine in and better product pricing.

Your expert opinion please.

Isn’t this the part where Registered Guest comes in and says, " Option C, get a real job that pays the bills." lol

What you’re talking about are to completely different styles of pizza shops. You should go with what you’re most comfortable with.

Do you have experience in DELCO, EAT-IN or both ?

There’s a big difference between selling $5 pizzas and establishing a thriving eat in pizza restaurant.

Ummmm. The small, incredibly inexpensive pizza has been what the “Big 4” have been doing for years . . . and I contend that we independents are who have been transforming the pizza industry future. The trend for independents taking increasing market share is not huge, but definitely upward.

The way you ask your questions leads me to believe you are inclined to the delivery shop that is economy, lean opertion, low price, and survive on huge volume. That business model will work. It does in many places. If that is what you want to do, then definitely go for it . . . . but I disagree with that model transforming the future as much as tranforming the recent past. It’s a cycle thing.

Other operators choose a different model that involves higher pricing and higher cost ingredients. Others have still completely other business model that involves video games, buffet lines or dancing clowns. My personal opinion for me in my town with the marketplace we operate in . . . . I’ll never get the volume I’d need to make a PJ/DOM/LC/PH ostyle operation profitable. Never happen in my lifetime. So, I run a higher end pizzeria focused on value and excellence in product and service. We do dine-in . . . and are planning to open a dining room based expansion in coming months for a white-tablecloth casual dining experience.

Thanks Nick,
I am more of an investor than operator. looking to open a pizza shop. get volume,sales and sell it quick. nobody does $5 pie in my town of 12000. though dominnos have 3 for $15 occationaly. i could always expand into dine in if things go too well for me. for now i think iam better of keeping the expensive minimum.
Thanks for your opinion.

Personally I think a restaurant is one of the worst investments you can make if your desire is simply to make money or build and sell. If your desire is only to flip a business, why not purchase an under performing or poorly managed restaurant, turn it around and sell it??? Much better ROI and more “knowns”.

No offense to you sir, I’m sure you are an intelligent business man, or else you wouldn’t have liquid capital to invest. But surely, if you have spent any time reading this forum, you have noticed the 1000’s of registered users are riddled with folks who have tried your business model and failed.

Are you sure this is the best investment opportunity you have? I believe everyone on this forum is united in our wish to not see anyone lose their savings.

I’ll sleep better tonight if I know you have spent time reviewing the forum archives, and are still confident in your business plan.

you get the douche-bag award of the week. obviously you have no experience in the pizza business. don’t think you can become successful overnight because you have a little extra pocket change to open a dumpy little store that is going to sell “a heck of a lot 5.00 pizzas”. gimme a break!

keep your job, put your 15,000 you saved up into a mutual fund and end this silly dream now.

If it’s a delco who’s your competition?
If it’s a dine in who’s your competition ?

Which of these do you think would be more difficult to compete against?

If you open a delco to compete against Dominos you will have lots of (CA)labor. You’ll need drivers…

If there is no dine in pizza around that’s what I’d go for, the untapped market.

Wow… to think I often wonder how these used equipment companies keep stock. I think I just found out why.

To the original poster:

I’m not sure if you’re aware of this so I’ll give you a few fun facts to ponder:

Were you aware that the majority of restaurants that open fail within the first 12 months of business? With the increase in minimum wage (thus increasing overhead) I’m sure you’ll find the mortality rate will increase even more substantially, affecting restaurants that were already on the bubble. For those of us who do manage to hang on, we’ll see profit levels decrease due to higher overhead. Decreased profit levels, from the national average of 7%-10%, mean restaurants will now report actual levels of 5%-8%.

With that in mind I’ll ask you, “Are you sure you want to invest your cash in a pizza restaurant that will most likely fail, or at best, earn an avg. of $400/week in profit?”

-J_r0kk

Ouch!!! $400 a week? that’s just pocket change in expensive California( i guess it will fill my suv twice a week. though i will have to open couple more pizzas to afford a hummer lol). very bad economics. I guess nobody should open a pizza shop anymore. But, they are popping everywhere. thanks guys. very good information.

im 1 of those smart investors…lol and it started out financially. Had a partner who ran a pizza place for 13 yrs. Didnt know all he did was really ran the counter and count $ :slight_smile: wELL HES GONE NOW AND iM STRUGGLING DONT DO IT RUN :cry:

Not that no one should open a pizza shop . . . but that one really nees to know what the stakes and odds are before dumping a bunch of cash into the project. It’s one thing to want to run one’s first shop as one’s business and make it grow into something . . . . it is another to be a financial speculator looking for an investment for ROI.

I can tell you that there are probably THOUSANDS of people out there looking for ‘Angels’ to infuse cash into a business plan and get a pizza shop open. I would welcome just that thing right this minute. Problem is that I cannot assure you anything about return on investment or interest accumulated. Far too volitile a marketplace . . . and I haven’t drawn (and kept) a paycheck in three years :shock: I ain’t the business wizard, and it ain’t the super-ideal marketplace. Just a reality to share in case you want to invest ni my shop. I am still committed to this money pit for now and have shot $55K into it to move it along. we’ll see how it goes for us.

If you love it and can learnthe business, then jump on the train. It’s a wild ride! E-ticket kind of ride for those enough old enough to remember. Not for the feint of heart.

Please research this one matter…how many of the pizza shops “popping up everywhere” have been around for more than 2 years in your market place. In my market, I’ve got two new struggling places less than 1 year old, and 2 that closed this week after over 10 years, which brings the total to 5 that have closed in the last 3 years. And all these folks new this business well, and were located in delivery areas over 100,000. So I’ve got them popping up in my market also, but I know personally they’ve lost a total of over $500k between them, with the total only going up.

Please reconsider this investment, unless you have a very experienced (5-10 years) partner/operator helping you. If you continue, we’d like to here your progress.

Nick I see you did not get open this weekend…Hopefully the long haul will be over soon and you will be serving folks soon…RCS…

[quote=“Guest”]
I have two choices. 1200 sf. no dine in. sell a heck of $5 pizza. smaller rent. less risk. less responsibility. less(california) labour w/no dine in. easier management. smaller investment. this is the way majors are going and transforming the future of pizza industry.

If this is what you do, on your business plan, have a contigency plan if someone opens up another place across the street with a $5 pizza thats 1" bigger than yours…with a drive thru…and pizzas are hot-n-ready (the new Little Ceasars model)…and a free 2 liter…and a toy for the kids… and add wings for $5…in 5 flavors.

When competing on price, you make it very easy for your competitors.

If you think you are competing on quality, then your “less responsibility, less labor, easier management” assumption is incorrect. Competing on quality is a 24/7 restaurant career, not a turnkey investment.

I definately do not need a 24/7 job. LC wont come in town. they are waiting for new construction in new area, 5 yrs. +. very very little chance of new comptetion within 5 years. I just wanted tap in to open $5 mkt. in the town. 24/7? no thanks. iam 40 hr. person.

If you open the $5 del/co, you can’t expand to offer dine-in and raise your prices.

If there’s money to be made in your town, one of the big 4 will come in and help themselves.

The good news… 10 years ago, it was the “big 3”, so there is money to be made.

Since you’re in California, I’d suggest you go to BJ’s (restaurant, not wholesale) and then order a pizza from Domino’s. Sure, you could get 4 Domino’s pizzas for what you’d pay for BJ’s pizza, but which one will you go visit again? If you’d visit BJ’s again before ordering 4 pizzas from Domino’s, you’ve made your decision. Then again, Domino’s doesn’t deliver a pizza for $5 either, so my math is off but you get my point.

Economics seems very easy. The question isn’t whether you’d buy 4 $5 pizzas or 1 $20 pizza, but rather would you buy a $5 pizza 4 times before you’d buy 1 $20 pizza. Oh, and then there’s the profit margin difference to really monkey things up. So, you’d probably have to sell 6 of those $5 pizzas to match the “profit” off that 1 $20 pizza.

“If you open the $5 del/co, you can’t expand to offer dine-in and raise your prices”
Thanks for providing your expertise.

"If there’s money to be made in your town, one of the big 4 will come in and help themselves. "

You are right sir. I personaly know LC is trying. i guess they gonna have to wait for about five years. simply not enough commercial building in town and it takes a generation to permit in CA. 5 yrs before they put 1 in.

“Economics seems very easy.”

I was reffering to comment on average pizza shop making $400 a week! bad economics IMO. i personaly knew an ice cream man that made 36k yr. all cash. total investment $2600. thats 8 months a year 6/7 hrs. per day. And there were other icee’s did better than him. pretty amazing. now lets not loose the topic and start on this icee man.

Most of the guys on this forum can not stand $5 concept. they just hate’em. I am sure you will find plenty of them thriving.

[quote=“Original poster”
i personaly knew an ice cream man that made 36k yr. all cash. total investment $2600. thats 8 months a year 6/7 hrs. per day. And there were other icee’s did better than him. quote]

Was that cold hard cash ??? :lol: