Hi Tom / Guys,
I’m wondering if I really need my dough to have a second rise (in dough ball shape) if I’m doing thin n crispy style pizza and using a dough roller ?
Was thinking I could do an initial rise at room temperature (21-27 Celsius) after mixing, then a cold bulk ferment overnight in the cooler, then bring out an hour before service and just create dough balls when required putting them immediately through a sheeter/roller.
Would roll to two thirds of required size and stretching by hand the rest.
Would obviously ball, roll, sauce, and cheese some bases onto racks before service to keep ahead.
All advice super appreciated.
I’m betting that your dough balls will be tougher than a tennis ball to sheet out, not to mention the snap-back/memory.
By allowing the dough to ferment at room temperature will reduce the dough density making it all but impossible to effectively cool which in all probability will lead to the dough blowing during the over night cold ferment period unless you reduce the yeast so low so as to control the blowing issue but then you will have created an open invitation to the development of a gum line. Better to mix, scale and ball, box, wipe with oil, cross-stack, down-stack and close the boxes, cold ferment 24 to 48-hours, remove from the cooler and allow to warm to 50F before opening into pizza skins. If you want, you can also just allow the dough to ferment for 5 or 6-hours at room temperature and then cut a piece from the dough and pass it through the sheeter several times to get the desired size, trim to size, save the trim scraps in another bowl for use later in the day. DO NOT BALL THE DOUGH. This is the method that was used for a good number of years by just about every pizzeria until they needed the consistency and convenience provided by the cold fermented dough ball method described above.
By the way, if you decide to pre-sauce the skins be sure to brush the surface of the skin very lightly with oil before applying the sauce to prevent moisture from the sauce from soaking into the dough to form a gum line later on.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
Thanks Tom, appreciate the help !
I guess what I was getting at was…how can I still get a great tasting dough without letting it have a second rise in ball form ?
Does mixing the dough, and then immediately bulk fermenting it overnight in the cooler help ?
I will be using a dough roller and producing thin and crispy style pizzas.
Once again, appreciate your expertise, experience and advice !
Sure, you can just bulk ferment the dough if you want, that’s how it used to be done back in the 50’s and early 60’s. Mix the dough, remove the agitator, cover the bowl with a sheet of plastic to keep the dough from drying out and it will be ready to begin using 3 to 4-hours and will remain usable for up to around 8-hours. To use the dough just grab a handful of dough and cut it from the body of the dough then loosely form into a circular shape (DO NOT BALL IT), pass the dough through the sheeter several times to achieve the desired thickness, trim to size, dock, dress and bake. You cannot effectively bulk ferment the dough in the cooler overnight as the outer edges of the dough will be colder and receive significantly less fermentation then the warm center (core) of the bulk dough piece. Remember that the dough continues to heat up during fermentation due to the heat of metabolism which results in a temperature rise of about 1F per hour.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
Okey dokey, thanks for that Tom !
Will try with and without balling(second rise) step to see how they compare.
Tom Lehman i have another question along these lines. I worked at a place years ago for a short time that ran their dough through a sheeter, then they flour dusted it lightly folded it in half dusted folded and ran it again. I dont remember if they ran it 3 or 4 times 3 would give them 4 layers of dough 4 would give them 8. They then cut the skins and stacked them with parchment paper in between the skins. Looking at dominos thin crust parbakes. It apears they do something simalar. As the edge looks like lots of layers. Have you ever heard of this system before? I never made the dough at the shop i mentioned so im not reaply sure what they used other than I know it had yeast in it. Can you give me any insight? I really wanna clone that dough.
What you are describing is a laminated dough. Doughs can be laminated with either oil/fat or flour (crackers are laminated by blowing hot air over the dough just prior to folding, the hot air forms a crust which results in the desired delamination, not you know how they make those flaky crackers). The resulting crust that you describe is referred to as thin cracker, which is quite a bit different from a Domino’s crust which is cold fermented between 48 and 96-hours before it is opened by hand without the use of a sheeter. The doughs that are made using a lamination process, by necessity, have to be a fairly dry/stiff dough, typically made with something between 35 and 45% absorption. If the dough is too soft or wet the flour that is applied as a delaminating agent is worked into the dough during the next pass through the sheeter and all delaminating properties are lost.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
Thanks Tom regarding dominos dough i was talking about their parbaked thin crust not the hand tossed. Do you have any good recipies for a laminated dough? Also any thoughts on how many pass/folds i should do? Thanks so much for all your help you make this forum a priceless tool!
Any good basic thin crust dough will work fine.
Flour: Strong bread type flour (12 to 12.8% protein content)
Sugar: Generally not used but if needed for color 2%.
Water: (60F) 45% (variable)
Manage the dough for a 24-hour (or longer) cold ferment dough before laminating.
Most operators use 3 to 4-folds then set aside to rest before the final sheeting. You will need to experiment with the rest period, you want to use the shortest rest period possible, start at 0 and increase in 15-minute increments. If you can sheet the dough the rest period is long enough. Many times we laminate a dozen pieces of dough and then immediately begin with the final sheeting.
Tom Lehmann/ The Dough Doctor