Getting off of the XLT for a second since this was originally about Marsal ovens:
I am interested in the double stack SD448. I am interested in this over Baker’s pride as I do not have the width for a Y-600 or Y-602. The Marsal has a thicker deck by 33%, but 25,000 fewer BTUs. Actually Baker’s pride does make a smaller oven (like a D-125), but it has a 10" deck height, vs 7-8" for a pizza specific oven.
If you compare the SD660 to Y602, the Marsal actually has 10,000 more BTU per hour (130K BTU vs 120K BTU) and the thicker (2") deck, so why is it having more problems with recovery than a Y602?
I would not hope that I could do consecutive four X 16" pizzas on a single 36x48" 2" thick deck at a time during rush hour with little recovery issues with 95,000 BTU/hour, or 8 in the double stack SD448. Perhaps I could have an SD448 made with the 130K BTU burner instead of 95K BTU burner.
Price wise, the Marsal seems a little cheaper. I’m looking in the low 4000$ range per SD448 (so $8500 for double stack).
You know I’ve just got to ask these questions.
What is your store concept? (dine in, carry out, full service, pizza only, slice, etc.)
What about your kitchen? (will the prep area and oven be viewed by the customer? Will you hand toss, sheet or press your dough skins?)
What about your pizza? (lots of toppings, more gourmet with fewer toppings, thin crust, thick crust, etc.)
Your production? (will your store be in a location where you will get slammed for lunch? or dinner?)
Do you have any ideas of how many pizzas per hour you anticipate making during your busiest hours?
These are all questions that need to be asked and answered in order to make the right decision on an oven, because the oven must fit into the store concept.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
Thanks for asking. Your question actually brings me to another question. And that was “what is the maximum number of pizzas a lone pizza maker capable of making per hour on a deck?” I was thinking about this last night and could not anticipate that one could make more than about 50/hour, but I could be way off – this is hand tossed on a deck oven.
In terms of peak hours, I that thought we would be limited to whatever one pizza person could produce and of course hope to be that busy on Friday and Saturday nights (the busiest anticipated times). If we can do 150 pies on Friday and Saturday night each we’d be doing well (according to the spreadsheet). The space is quite limited and I had the impression that we would not be able to have two people working the oven(s) but I may also be wrong there.
The idea is sort of similar to something like zPizza in that we plan on doing something unique and towards healthier and more “green” with the ingredients. Delivery, take out and casual eat-in. The prep and ovens will definitely be viewable by customers (otherwise I’d probably get an old double stack Baker’s Pride on eBay with a 10" deck height and 80K BTU for $1999 and just try to deal with it! If I am buying new or much newer used I want to get it right for sure) and will all be hand tossed, etc. I am thinking roughly 600grams (22oz) for a 16" pizza. Toppings will not be piled on too heavily.
Patrick;
In an a regular, deck oven, you’re right at about 40 to 50 pizzas per hour max with the sizes you have mentioned. I think you can push that number a ltiitl higher with the Marsal due to the heavier deck and larger BTU capacity. It sounds like amviance is part of your store concept, so in this case you might want to consider their fully brick lined oven, and with a brick face it will look a lot like an old world oven. Use wood peels for your prep peels and metal peels for your oven peels. Be sure to get an oven rake and broom for sweeping out the oven. While there are a lot of things to use as a peel release, I like to use equal parts of flour, corn meal, and semolina flour. I also use this same blend for my dusting flour when opening the dough balls by hand. Maybe think about using fresh tomato slices along with fresh, green leaf basil and or oregano, and diced garlic rather than a traditional sauce as it fits well into the green/natural approach to making pizza. For cheese, thing about buying a fresh, mozzarella cheese that you can peal, like an orange, and put the random pieces onto the pie. Grande makes one that comes in pre-made 4-ounce balls for easy portion control, just peal the ball to spread the cheese onto the pizza. Don’t worry about uniform coverage, that may not be what you are looking for with this type of pizza.
Goos luck with your concept.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
I just sold XLT 3870 twins. I also was happy with the company and the ovens are amazing. We had a bake time of 4 minutes @ 500 degrees. The problem is noise and heat.
I was in a joint the other day talking to the owner/ pizza maker that has a HUGE catering operation; he was telling me about a recent order for 140 pies! Anyways, he uses a Picard rotating shelf oven that is generally designed for other baking needs and he says it works great, especially if you need to turn out volume. He cooked us a pie in 10 minutes and it was quite good. Nice crisp crust and evenly cooked toppings.
Jesse;
In Chicago, they use large reel type ovens, typically made be Middleby-Marshall for baking their pizzas. These ovens are the size of an office and yes, you are correct, they do have the potential for a lot of capacity. The biggest problem with them though is a lack of concentrated bottom heat, and their overall size, when a double stacked 70-inch air impingement oven will bake just as many pizzas per hour, with a lot less space.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor