Dough question

I’m interested in a dough for hand stretching and tossing. I use a 14% high gluten flour (Bouncer) and was wondering what the optimal moisture content and oil content should be for best stretching and throwing ? I currently use about a 59%-60% water content but it’s hard to work with most of the time. Thanks for any advice.

What are the problems you are experiencing?

my formula is
flour, 11.8% protein
water 60%
salt 2.75 %
IDY .45%

I hand toss and it works well for me
higher protein, more water absorption…
if you are willing to show us your formula, there could be some more help,

This is my experimental small batch recipe that I’m trying to get more easily stretchable:

Bouncer HG flour (14%) - 500 gr
SAF IDY - 1 tsp
Water (room temp) - 300 gr

Kosher salt - 1 tsp
baking soda - 1/2 tsp
black pepper - 1/4 tsp

veg oil(canola) - 1 1/2 tsp
Barley Malt syrup - 1 TBL

I mix the the yeast , water and 1/2 of the flour into a starter and let set for 4-6 hrs. I then mix in the salt , soda and pepper until thoroughly mixed in and finally the oil and barley extract until well mixed.I machine knead for 10 mins and let retard in refrigerator for 24 hrs. It has good flavor and browns nicely but is hard to hand stretch and throw. I think a lower protein flour and a little bit more water may help.
I add the remaining half of the flour after adding the barlley extract and before kneading.


I have some thoughts on this, but before commenting further can you tell me where you got the formula for the preferment (half of the total formula flour, all of the IDY and all of the water), and what is the reason you are using baking soda? Also, what kind of pizza are you trying to make and what is a typical dough ball weight and corresponding pizza size? And, finally, what water temperature are you using and what is the room temperature where you are making the dough?

Also, I believe you meant to include the remaining flour (250 grams) as part of the final mix.

I have some questions also, first being:
Do you cut the dough into balls before retarding in the refrigerator ?

lower protein flour will produce a slacker dough,


dr tom is more qualfied to answer this
do you use dough conditioner that should help you in stretching do you allow the dough 2 hours before you start stretching it?

Question answers:
I. For NY style thin crust
2. I got the initial starter idea from this thread on biga :
although I’ve seen other similar posts in other threads and forums. Dr Toms recipe was a little too stiff for me so I cut my flour in half for the starter to get it more pasty in nature.
3 I use the soda to enhance crust browning and I also brush the rim (cornicione) with a 8/1 mix of hot water and
baking soda to enhance rim browning. Borrowed that from pretzle making. I use the barley malt extract for browning and flavor - the black pepper as a subtle flavor enhancer.
4. I divide the dough into 2 dough balls prior to retarding and I let them warm up and rise for a couple hours before using- for 2 13"-14" thin crusts
5. I don’t use any dough conditioners- had some pz-44 once but didn’t care for it much.

I’m going to try Gold Medal Harvest King flour and increase the water to 62% on the next try.

suggestion and question,

start over with a simple formula and develop your own formula from that
you can use my formula that I listed in an above post, it is as simple as you can get
your flour is OK, that’s not a problem; any flour I know above 11% protein will make good pizza dough

Are you kneading small batches by hand ?
small batches are tricky, especially without the appropriate scales…I can advise you on small, hand kneaded batches if that is what you are doing,


Based on the information you provided, it may be worth trying a higher hydration (but only by a couple of percent if using the Bouncer flour) but the problem may also lie with your preferment, as I will discuss below.

I took the ingredients and quantities you listed and recasted them in baker’s percent format to better analyze your recipe. Unless I made math or calculation errors, I got the following for the “Total Formulaâ€