help needed for my business my dough is rubbish

hi all. ive had my pizza shop for just over a year now and my dough isnt anywere near as good as i would like it. im in the uk and use orion pizza flour does anyone else use this flour?
ill start with how i make my dough then ill list my problems. thanks in advance to all that try help me make my business better.

5000g flour
75g yeast
75g salt
50g sugar
2 litre water
2 eggs
1 pint veg oil

i mix it all together for about 10-15 min. then ball it 300g for 10". 400g for 12"

leave to rise for 20-30 min then roll it then leave till its rose 30-45 min depending how warm it is.

the dough is good if i use same day but next day it goes flat and only good for the bin.

also have a problem with geting mould sometimes the same night.

and air bubbles inside the base and under it.

if my recipe is that bad could someone please point me in the rite direction

have spent alot of time looking through this site there are so many recipes but havent came across any basic comercial ones that are simple to follow.
would like my dough to last 3 days if poss
please help thanks all
matt smith

I found a thread about dough formaulation that heavily features Tom Lehmann, the Dough Doctor. He provides the bakers percents for his basic dough formula. You start with your flour weight as the benchmark . . . . it is always 100%. All the other ingredients are listed as a percentage of that weight. Everything is weighed . . . g/kg will work great.

I cannot figure the correct flour mass in your recipe . . . 5000 kilograms?? That’s five and a half US tons. If it is really 5000 g, then your yeast is at 1.5%, which seems really high. Dough temp is really, really important as you will see in the thread. High heat and high yeast means exhausted, flabby dough on day two.

thanks for that
my mistake is 5000g lol

I’d bet getting yeast back closer to .5% and finished dough temp down into 80-85F range )sorry, don’t know the C scale as well) will give you a much better performance. Ball, cross stack, then downstack and temper in cooler overnight as described in the link. You may find a whole new world of dough performance and flavor.

BTW, what do the eggs add to the dough? You already have oil, so not so much the fat.

It might not be if the yeast is fresh yeast.



It looks like the hydration of your formulation is 40% (about 41.5% when the water in the two eggs is added to the formula hydration). What kind of pizza are you making? And what kind of yeast are you using?

Is the pint of vegetable oil an Imperial pint that is 20 fluid ounces rather than a U.S. pint of 16 fluid ounces?


Some quick calculations shows your dough formula to look like this in bakers percent:
flour 100%
Yeast 1.5% (compressed yeast?)
Salt 1.5%
Sugar 1%
Water 40%
Eggs 2% (assuming 50g. per egg)
Oil 9%

Your dough weights look to be a bit on the heavy side, but not knowing what you are wanting to make, I cannot comment on this.
Here is what I would do with your dough formula to make it work better:

  1. Delete the eggs.
  2. Increase the water to 55% (2.750 Lts.)
  3. Reduce the oil to 3% (150 grams)
  4. Adjust the water temperature to 65F/18.3C.

Add water to the mixing bowl, then add the salt and sugar, followed by the flour.
Crumple the yeast onto the flour
Mix at low speed for 2-minutes, add the oil, mix for 1 more minute at low speed.
Then mix at medium speed for about 8 to 10 minutes, or just until the dough takes on a smooth, satiny appearance.
Check the finished dough temperature, it should be between 80 and 85F/26.6 and 29.4C.
Take the dough immediately to the bench for scaling and balling.
Place dough balls into plastic dough boxes, wipe the dough balls with salad oil and cross stack in the cooler for 2.5 hours then down stack and nest the boxes to prevent drying. The dough will be ready to use on the following day. To use the dough, remove about a 3-hour supply from the cooler and allow it to set at room temperature for 1.5 hours, then begin opening the dough balls into skins. Once you begin opening the dough balls, they will remain good at room temperature for up to three hours, but be sure to keep the dough boxes covered. This dough will be good to use over a two day storage time in the cooler.
Please let me know if you should have any questions or problems.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

thanks all for your help

i just tried what recipe you said i should and it came out very wet. i had to add 500g of flour just to get it out of the mixer and more as i was balling it.

i dont ball my dough and put in trays i roll it then put into the fridge to use same night.

after cooking 1 it is so much better than my dough (thankyou) but i would like it a bit dryer can i just add flour to it till it is how i like it or do i need to work out why it is so wet.

is there anything else i need to tell you tom? (i use dried yeast)

could any of my measurements be wrong from usa and uk measures as some are different

thanks again im alot happier today looks like things are going to get better thanks

i meant ball it then roll it then put in tins then in fridge

No, don’t continue adding flour to achieve the consistency you are looking for, instead, reduce the amount of water that you add to the dough. Sinct you said that adding 500 grams of additional water seemed to work well, I would reduce the amount of water added to that dough size by about 250 grams. This should give you the same consistency as you got when you added the extra flour.
I’m glad to hear that it worked out well for you.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

thanks ill try less water tomorow and let you now how i get on

hi tom was a little better with less water still need a little less.
how long should i leave the balls on side before i roll them and put them in the tins?
then how long should i leave them out before puting them in the fridge?
my room temp is about 30c at the minute

the ones i made yesterday were flat again when i came in today i checked the dough temp when i took them out the fridge it was at 4.5c is that ok?

what does it mean when you cook the dough with no toppings on it and it just turns into a football. just 1 big skin full of air?

i have ordered some new tins is there anything i should do to them before i use them?
ive been told i should just wipe them out after use is this rite?

hope you dont mind all the questions
thanks matt

We typically like to leave the dough balls temper a little at room temperature. 60 to 90-minutes is about right. It makes forming the dough balls into skins a lot easier too. Once you have fitted the dough to the pan, you will need to allow the dough to proof/rise for something between 30 and 45-minutes. You will need to experiment to see what time works best for your shop. Then take the pans of partially proofed dough to the cooler, place on racks for cooling. The dough should continue to rise after you put it in the cooler to a desired/optimum height for your pizza. It will then stop rising (if you have done everything right) and the pans of dough will be stable throughout the day. A dough temperature of 4.5C is about right when you remove the dough from the cooler. When you bake the dough without any toppings and it blows up like a giant pita, is what you get when you try to par-bake the crusts incorrectly. Typically, this is a result of par-baking at too high of an oven temperature, and/or baking too long. A good temperature to par-bake at is around 400F/204.5C. Bake the crust just until it begins to turn to a light tan in color. Remove the crust from the pan immediately after baking and cool on a wire screen.
What kind of new pans are you ordering? From who?
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

ive ordered the pans from here

what makes the dough go flat while its in the fridge could it be to much water in the dough

thanks again


Can you restate the complete dough formulation you are now using? And is the yeast active dry yeast (ADY) or instant dry yeast (IDY)?


5000g flour
75g idy
75g salt
50g sugar
150g veg oil
2.2litres of water ish just working that out

If the dough is active and rising prior to going into the cooler, the only thing that will cause it to go flat is collapse, possibly resulting from the addition of an incorrect (protease) enzyme, or improver package containing one, excess yeast level, insufficient or no salt in the formula, allowing the dough to rise excessively prior to going into the cooler, or an excessively weak flour.
Which pans are you using? The silver or black?
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

black tins

i tried a little less yeast today only 60g will see tomorow if that as helped i also put them in the fridge a bit sooner than normal to see if it was the heat. its pretty warm in the shop

also the dough is shrinking when im trying to use it never had this problem before. the dough is quite wet to touch but shrinks if i shake the tin or try to pull the edges up before saucing

didnt help they went flat before the end of the night even i took them out the fridge and they didnt rise anymore.

im lost now

Can you please give me your complete dough management procedure.
It sounds as if the dough isn’t sufficiently fermented prior to shaping. This would explain the shrinkage and pulling back when you handle the dough. I can tell a lot more though when I see how you’re managing your dough.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor