Id like to address this to Tom Lehmann , but if you can help everyone is free to throught there advice in.
our dough is;
pizza flour 00 ( we are based in europe)
54% water
.3% idy
2% salt
2% evoo
we refrigerate after mixing and use from day 2
now my question is this:
we are using mm ps 200 ( i know they are not perfect but its what we`re stuck with for now)
we are trying the hearth bake disks from loyd pans.
what would be the best finger configuration to use , and what would be the best time temp setup?
to achieve something like a deck oven bake
thanks for any help in advance
Dude!
(I always wanted to begin a response like that)
That PS-200 doesn’t flow enough air to really capture the benefits of the Hearth Bake disks, but since you already have them, you will want to go with a baking temperature of 490 to 500F (254 to 260C). The bottom finger profile will be fully open, and the bake time will be around 6 to 6.5-minutes. You will then need to adjust the top fingers to avoid burning your cheese or scorching the other topping ingredients. Due to the variability of the cheese it is impossible for my to give a more specific top finger configuration. With one of the new generation ovens you would be looking at fully open across the bottom, baking at 465 to 475F (241 to 246C), with a baking time of 4.5 to 5-minutes, with a top finger configuration of open, closed, partially open (50%) and closed. Again, this might change a little depending upon the browning characteristics of your cheese, and how much browning you want.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
Thanks Tom
Thats a great starting point, we`re currently cooking on screens, at about 445 f , fully open across the bottom top is open closed closed open , the crust is very nice but id like to get the bottom that little bit more crispy on the bottom
Dude,
I was reading this and wanted to share something with you.I am a BIG Fan of Deck ovens and not conveyors.
That said,I have had many NY style pizza cooked in Bakers Pride Deck ovens,on screens,and the crust was a little brown,mostly pale,but soft and not as crispy as I would have preferred.Slices folded very easy though.Was not very different than a conveyor oven crust using screens!Made me wonder why they even bothered using a deck oven in the first place!
I found it strange that a lot of NY style pizza shops I had eaten at,were using or switching to screens.Some of the better tasting ones I preferred,they either did not use screens at all,or if they did,they use screens,it was for the first few minutes,then they take the pizza off the screens and finish the rest of the pizza on the stone inside.The pizza maker was doing this by eye and checking it constantly.Those pizzas had the best tasting crust compared to screen cooked pies.
I guess I like my crust more well done and crispier.I see that is a goal of yours too.I would suggest you make some test pies without the screen or one using the screen partially…either the first,or last few minutes of the pie and see if it comes out to what you are looking for.
BP;
The reason why “Dude” is using screens, or Hearth Bake disks under his pizza is due to the open mesh, wire conveyor used in air impingement ovens. Without the support of the disk/screen or pan, the dough would tend to fall through the conveyor. I also see al lot of deck oven operators baking their pizzas on a screen or disk as opposed to directly on the deck. There are a couple reasons for this. 1) It eliminates the need for a peel dust so the oven stays cleaner longer. 2) Some dough formulas/recipes contain milk, sugar or eggs, all of which contribute to rapid browning of the crust when placed directly ob the deck. By baking the pizza on a screen for the first few minutes you can get a better (longer) bake without getting excessive crust color development on the bottom, then by “decking” the pizza (removing it from the screen and placing it right on the deck) you can finish the pizza to get the desired bottom color and crisp it up a bit more, and just in case you’re wondering if this could all be avoided by just eliminating the offending ingredient from the dough formula, the answer is yes. In fact, when we use the Hearth Bake disks in the air impingement oven, and reset the temperature to 465 to 500F, we recommend doing this to prevent excessive crust browning at those high temperatures in the air impingement ovens.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
Tom,
Thanks so much for that reply and info.Yes,I am aware of conveyor ovens requiring screens so the pies don’t fall through.
I just found it strange that a lot of deck oven operators are using screens nowadays,yet when growing up in NY state,I had never seen anyone use one in a deck oven until sometimes in the '90’s.
I also liked what you talked about with ingredients in the dough and the browning.I have experimented myself using a pizza stone in my home electric oven and comparing different amounts of oil,sugar,malt or etc to see how the browning effects would appear along with the crispier crust.Have to say it’s been a learning experience.
I have never heard of anyone using eggs or milk in their doughs.Thats pretty cool info.I wonder how using those ingredients would change the hydration ratio of the dough mix?I use your Lehmann’s dough recipe at home and its one of my favorites.Can’t imagine using any milk or eggs in that,though!
:lol:
Bill;
I am not a fond lover of using milk or eggs in the dough due to food safety concerns and the potential for cross contamination. Just don’t need those problems.
The dough absorption/hydration remains the same when either are used, but you have to take the water content into account, meaning that when using milk, you calculate the milk at 10% solids and 90% water and whole eggs are calculated at 25% solids and 75% water. Looking at it another way, if you were adding 1-pound of whole eggs, you would be adding 12-ounces of water and 4-ounces of whole egg solids. With milk it would figure out to be 14.4-ounces of water and 1.6-ounces of dry milk solids. One other thing, the milk needs to be scalded before you use it if you’re using liquid milk. Failure to do so can result in unwanted dough softening.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
Tom,
I really appreciate you taking the time to address some of the questions I had.You are a legend online and I’m very grateful to hear your expert advise on a lot of questions.
Also,I did not mean to hijack this thread and turn it into something else other that what Dude posted.Sorry about that Dude!
:oops:
While I had no plans to ever use eggs or milk,it was still beneficial to read and understand what you are trying to teach us.
Tom,if you do not mind,how does your NY style Lehmann’s dough react on screens,in a conveyor oven,like Dude posted?
(the recipe I am talking about was posted on the pizzamaking.com forum and it is what I used in the past.)
Have you ever experimented with it that way on those types of conveyor oven?If so what were the results? I have not been on this forum very long,even though I was lurking here a while.I hope you do not mind me asking,I just thought maybe we can learn something from it that way.If there was a post or thread,Im sorry to say I did not see it yet.
Thanks!
-Bill
[/quote]
Also,I did not mean to hijack this thread and turn it into something else other that what Dude posted.Sorry about that Dude!
[quote]
No problem Bill , all the information being posted here will help me to improve the profile of my crust , to achieve the desired crispy texture , in fact although I dont post very often I have been on this forum for some years and its been of great help
thanks again
Tom
the fingers I have on the bottom have six holes across, the ones on the top have three holes is this what you call half open?
Bill;
Screens do an OK job of baking the N.Y. style crust, but that’s about all the credit I can give it. With the screen you get a uniformly brown bottom crust color, like I said, OK, but no trophy. With a correctly configured air impingement oven, bakeing at the correct temperature, and using one of the Hearth Bake Disks, you get the variability in the bottom crust color as well as some slight charring which contributes flavor and interest to the crust appearance as well as flavor. I.E., the crust is much more like that of a “hearth baked” crust than one baked in an air impingement oven. What it all comes down to is: You pays wer money, and you takes yer pick.
Tom Lehmann/the Dough Doctor