We recently bought a Thunderbird 80 quart mixer and it has been nothing but one breakdown after another so we are sending it back to them and buying a Hobart legacy 60 quart. The 662 is billed as a pizza mixer with 2 fixed speeds yet the attachment hub has 5 speeds that go at high rpms. I was confused by this thinking the agitator must somehow not turn with the 3 higher attachment hub speeds but when I contacted Hobart they told me the agitator turns with all 5 speeds and are fairly close to the Legacy 600 speeds. We mix cookie dough and were concerned that if the agitator only turns at the low rpms it would not mix the cookie dough. I can’t believe on their spec sheet this is not mentioned and only the 2 agitator speeds are. Is there anyone here that has a legacy 662 and can confirm this for me before we buy one. I don’t even want to go into all the thunderbird problems we had and don’t want to get into any with the Hobart. Thanks. Walter
http://www.hobartcorp.com/products/food-prep/mixers/legacy-hl662-pizza-mixer/
Walter;
The attachment hub is for attachment like a “pelican head” This is the one at the top of the mixer, it indeed does rotate faster than the agitator (dough mixing are, flat beater, wire whip, etc.). This is taken right out of a Hobart Catalog. Now, with that said, I was using a Hobart 60-Qt. Legacy Mixer at the NAPIC Show recently and it indeed did have five speed settings much like you would find on a mixer with a Reeves speed drive. That being the case, the two mixers should be compatible. A close up photograph of the control panel will tell the story.
Maybe George Mills can confirm or refute.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
Tom: Thanks for the reply. The Hobart rep told me mixing over 70lb of pizza dough in a 600 legacy could result in the overload breaker being triggered and the mixer stopping. He said on the old ones you could overload them but the new ones have this feature to stop excessive wear and tear on the drivetrain. The 662 has the five speeds for the hub and they are: speed 1, 2, grind meat, cheese shred, vegetable slice. Here is what is on the spec sheet. The Hobart rep checked with the engineers and they said the agitator moves during the grind meat, cheese shred, vegetable slice functions on the selector dial at slightly slower speeds than the 600 model. I hope somebody with a 662 chimes in and confirms the agitator does move at fairly fast speeds when the selector is on the cheese and vegetable settings. I am gun shy with going through another mixer fiasco. Walter
HL662 Speeds :
AGITATOR
First speed - 56 rpm
Second speed - 99rpm
ATTACHMENT HUB
1st speed - 111 rpm
2nd speed - 196 rpm
3- Grind Meat - 212 rpm
4- Cheese Shred - 355 rpm
5- Vegetable Slice - 700rpm
Walter;
I’m betting that there is a pizzeria or restaurant with that mixer some place in Reno that your Hobart rep can direct you to so you can see first hand and possibly even mix a dough. The doughs that I was mixing at the NAPIC Show were only based on 15# of flour weight so I never experienced any problems but that is a long shot away form 50# of flour.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
Tom: I will ask the Hobart rep. The guy on the phone told me the 662 can mix 90lbs of pizza dough all day. Mark Granucci, the head chef at The Settlers Club located inside the Eldorado Hotel/Casino helps us 4 evenings a week. He took me on a tour of the operation at the Eldorado and they have 2 massive floors of kitchens including about a dozen Hobart mixers of varying sizes but none are the legacy model. They are all older ones with the manual bowl cranks. Walter
Walter if the agitator does in fact turn with the attachment drive, the speeds will be as follows (likely):
AGITATOR
First speed - 56 rpm
Second speed - 99 rpm
3-Grind Meat Speed - 107 rpm
4-Cheese Shred - 179 rpm
5-Vegatable Slice - 353 rpm
This was done figuring a 1.98/1 gear ratio between the Agitator and the Attachment Hub (gotten from the ratio for first and second speed, and I’ll bet it is just a 2/1 ratio in reality.) NOTE: I have never seen one of these machines in person, so.
What they are doing electrically is having a current sensor on the drive motor, so that when it reaches it’s rated 2.7 horse power, it “trips out.” That pretty much keeps it from ever burning up the motor. These types of sensors are cheap and very reliable these days.
ATTACHMENT HUB
1st speed - 111 rpm
2nd speed - 196 rpm
3- Grind Meat - 212 rpm
4- Cheese Shred - 355 rpm
5- Vegetable Slice - 700rpm
Walter;
I did a bit of checking through my references and I found that the agitator speeds for the 4-speed/Hobart H-600 mixer are as follows:
1-speed: 71 - r.p.m.
2- speed: 123 - r.p.m.
3- speed: 206 - r.p.m.
4- speed: 362 - r.p.m.
The Legacy that you are considering has agitator speeds of:
1- speed - 56- r.p.m.
2- speed - 99-r.p.m.
Most cookie dough formulas are not overly sensitive to mixing speed unless there is a stage in the mixing process (referred to as a “creaming stage” where ingredients, typically sugar and eggs, are mixed at a fairly high speed to develop an aerated mass which provides some of the leavening for the dough during baking. If this is not a part of the mixing procedure the dough is made by what is called the “blending” procedure where all of the ingredients are just blended together to form a homogeneous dough. Occasionally, the flour will be blended (at low speed) with the shortening to assist in producing a more tender eating cookie, then the other ingredients are blended into the flour- shortening mass. If your cookie dough procedure looks anything like that described above you should be able to mix at a lower speed whit the new mixing time based of agitator r.p.m. For example, if your procedure calls for blending flour and shortening (sometimes the eggs are included) for 3-minutes at #3-speed (H-600 mixer) the total mixing r.p.m. is 3 x 206 = 606-r.p.m. Second speed with the Legacy mixer is 99 - r.p.m. so to get 606 r.p.m. using the Legacy mixer you would divide 606 by 99 = 6.12-minutes (a good rule is to round up to the next nearest 1/2-minute = 6.5-minutes.
If you will P.M. me a copy of your cookie dough formula and procedure I’ll be glad to look at it and give you an opinion.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
bigmoose: Thanks for those numbers. They are pretty much what the Hobart rep told me the agitator moves at during the meat, cheese, vegetable setting.
Tom: Thank you for that breakdown. I will pm you the recipe but I am hoping someone here has a legacy 662 and can confirm the agitator moves at the approx. speeds big moose posted and the Hobart rep told me. The thunderbird experience really rattled my cage and I don’t want to go through the moving in and out again of another mixer in vain:eek: Walter
Walter been reading about your Thunderbird experience, I read that you purchased it new ? Is that correct? And the warranty did not cover all your issues ? I am considering buying on and another franchise operator I know has one and has worked fine for 4 years? Thanks again, Roy
Roy: I would avoid Thunderbird like the plague. The mixers are made in China and it ended up costing us over 1k for “restocking” fees. The company made us feel terrible too - accused us many times of making up the problems. I would go with an older hobart with none of the digital controls. FYI we used a thunderbird for many years that was purchased new about 10 years ago. That mixer worked fine but the new stuff is beyond junk. Walter
Roy;
The older T.B mixers were fine, but like Walter says, the new ones are made in China…very disappointed in the way Walter’s problems were addressed.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
Ok thanks for the advice, I’ve used the old Hobart’s and have had great use from them, but wanting to “try” a spiral at a new location, Tom any brands you suggest I look for?
A number of years ago I did a side by side evaluation of all the spiral mixers sold in the U.S. we found that there was no difference in performance between any of the mixers. The only one that we had any issue with was a single speed mixer where the speed was too high to blend the ingredients together with a full capacity in the bowl to prevent splashing ingredients all over the place. While not impacting the performance of the mixer a really good feature to have is a plastic drain plug in the bottom of the bowl which really helps with cleaning.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
Late to this post but all of the above have done a great job of covering the subject.
George
Hi Walter, we use a 60 qt hobart at the tahoe store using 32 lb sacks of flour, now in colorado springs i use a 100 qt empire spiral mixer and i love it, i usually mix 50 lbs of flour, sometimes 100 lbs - with an A+ M dough rounder, saves lots of time and labor with better dough quality as well, use VCM for cheese