?_Lehman My crust seems a bit "off", please advis

Tom,

My dough recipe is as follows

4 oz sugar
4 oz salt
4 1/2 oz yeast
3 cups veg. oil
50 lbs flour
4 gallons water room temp.

put all ingredients except flour in hobart and mix on low for 10 minutes. Then put flour in hobart and mix for 10 more minutes.

This yields a decent enough dough and crust which is cooked in my bakers pride deck over for about 10 minutes at 525. But it has no real flavor to it. I really don’t care for it much at all. Any ideas? Thanks!

Re: ?_Lehman My crust seems a bit “off”, please a

Need Help;
Oh boy!

1. youe salt level is way too low. You only have 0.5% salt. It should be at 3 to 4 times this level for best flavor.
2. Your yeast level (I’ve got to assume that it is compressed yeast as you don’t say what type it is) is also too low at only 0.56%. This is about 1.3 of what it should be. If you are using instant dry yeast the level is OK.
3. The vegetable oil is doing nothing for flavor. I would either replace it with olive oil or replace one cup of the vegetable oil with olive oil.
4. Do not put the yeast, salt, and sugar in the water all together. Instead, put the salt and sugar in the water, add the flour and put the yeast on top of the flour. Mix for about 2 minutes at low speed, add the oil and mix one more minute at low speed, then go to medium speed and mix just until the dough comes smooth. Check the finished dough temperature, it should be 80 to 85F. Adjust the water temperature on following doughs to give you the targeted finished dough temperature.
5. You don’t say anything about dough management. After mixing, scale the dough and form into balls, place into dough boxes, wipe the top of each dough ball with salad oil and cross stack in the cooler for about 2 hours. Then down stack and nest the boxes, allow to remain in the cooler for at least 12 hours before using. To use, remove some of the dough boxes, leave the dough covered in the boxes but allow to remain at room temperature for 60 to 90 minutes, then begin forming. Once the dough is ready to begin forming it will be good for about 3 hours at room temperature. Dough that has not been removed from the cooler will remain good for up to three days. This time in the cooler is where the dough really begins to develop its flavor (fermentation) this is the same way those great tasting New York bagels develop their flavor, in the cooler.
   In summary, in a pizza dough/crust the flavor results from correct use of salt, olive oil, or some other flavored oil, yeast and fermentation. Then of course lets not forget baking. It is during the baking process that the true flavors that we actually taste are developed. A longer, slower bake is what develops the flavor.
   Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Re: ?_Lehman My crust seems a bit “off”, please a

Tom,

Thanks for the response. One thing changed. My brain-fart converted 14 quarts of water into 4 gallons when in fact it is really 3.5 gallons. Don’t know if this makes much difference.

As for handling. We take the doughball when comleted and cut it into the right size. Then ball it up and brish it with oil. We then put it in a plastic bag and on a metal sheet pan. We put these in the walk-in cooler to rise. Unless there is a dire emergency we let them rise overnight.

Do these details change anything about your advice?

Re: ?_Lehman My crust seems a bit “off”, please a

Sorry! I forgot to add that I use Red Star active dry yeast.

Thanks!

Re: ?_Lehman My crust seems a bit “off”, please a

This brings your total dough absorption in at 56% which is still within the normal range for a pizza dough. Your dough management technique looks good, so I’m guessing that you need to look at your salt and yeast levels for the solution to your “lack luster” crust.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Re: ?_Lehman My crust seems a bit “off”, please a

Bit by bit the plot evolves and the facts are brought to light as are the details of a dough formulation. As you are using ADY your yeast level is a bit on the low side at 4.5 ounces. I would suggest going up to 6-ounces of ADY in your dough formula. Also, Make sure you are per-hydrating the ADY in 100 to 105F water for about 10 minutes before you add it to the mixing bowl. Put the yeast suspension right on top of the flour, not in the water with the salt and sugar. You will only need to put the yeast into a pint (16-ounces) of water to hydrate it.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Re: ?_Lehman My crust seems a bit “off”, please a

HOW ABOUT TRYING TO USE PART WINE IN EXCHANGE FROM WATER??? FOR A DIFFERENT TASTE, A NICE FRUITY RED WINE LIKE A MERLO SHOULD DO IT, I DONT KNOW HOW MUCH WINE YOU SHOULD PUT IN AS I WAS LOOKING FOR A DOUGH RECIPE MY SELF SO IF YOU DO TRY IT LET ME KNOW HOW IT TURNS OUT PLEASE .

I MYSELF AM NEW TO THIS AND AM TRYING TO TURN MY PLACE INTO A PIZZERIA, BUT I WANT TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

I DID SEE SOMEWHERE A DOUGH MADE WITH WINE SO IF YOU FIND ONE PLEASE LET ME KNOW

THANK YOU
PIERRE CASSAR

MALTA EUROPE

Re: ?_Lehman My crust seems a bit “off”, please a

Don’t thread jack Vegas. Start a separate one. And turn off that CAPS lock.

Re: ?_Lehman My crust seems a bit “off”, please a

Dear Dewar

As i am maltese and am writing in english, i might not understand everthing you write but then if i use maltese or italian then you would not understand me,
in my country we learn english at school so we all speak 3 or 4 lanuages cause not a lot of people are bothered to learn maltese or italian
now pardon me if im rude,
i took my caps off and i only used them as the letters on my pc were so small that i could not see them, but today i have my reading specks on. so if i offended you in any way by using Caps, then m sorry.

but this part i did not understand " Don’t thread jack Vegas. Start a separate one. " can you please explain what you mean by saying this.

Does that mean i was not suppose to leave a post here,

Are you the other person ( need help ) Mr Tom Lehmann is helping or are you just butting in just to be rude…

By the way its Rock Vegas

Re: ?_Lehman My crust seems a bit “off”, please a

I did not question your English. I was letting you know that your post was improper.

“Threadjacking” means to post something that has nothing to do with the topic being discussed. If you have a new question, start a new topic.

Also, it is common to shorten handles when addressing someone in a forum.

I did not mean to be rude any more than you meant to violate basic forum etiquette.

Re: ?_Lehman My crust seems a bit “off”, please a

There are some operators who use either wine or beer in their dough formulas. There was a guy who even used a spent, sour mash from a major distiller (Might have been Jack Daniels?). Yes, it does provide a different flavor. The amount used will depend upon the dough formulation, and the type of wine (in your case) added. It is common to see wine amounts in the 5 to 7% of the flour weight being used as a replacement for an equal amount of water. The only down side that I’m aware of, aside from cost, is the “stigma” of adding wine/alcohol to the dough. Some of your customers may not appreciate bringing their kids to a place that puts “alcohol” into a pizza that their children will be eating. It’s true that if they are not told, they’ll never know the difference, but if/when the word gets out, the “mucky stuff” may still hit the fan, and then you may have some irate customers to deal with. I don’t know what the solution is, but just do be aware of the issues.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor