hello DR

my questions 1.
what will it take to create a very soft pizza but yet crispy
and flavorfull without the use of any flavore enhencers just the taste of wheat itself
is it in the mixing fermentation baking or all the above and one more question if i may how bad mixing can effect the flavor of dough (oxidation)

ty for your time

Detailed inquiry . . . almost sounds like an essay question/assignment for a school :lol: I know I could stumble/fumble into answering some small portion of that, but interested to hear how Mr. Tom come sout.


Yes, Tom Lehmann can give you the best answer to that…

from my limited experience, I found that using a flour around 13% protein, rather that higher, and increasing the hydration, with water or oil (I do not use any oil in my dough formula),
I got a lighter, just as crispy crust, that did not harden up in time.

try that and keep experimenting to get the dough you want…

oven time, type and temperature has a lot to do with it too, will not go there from now,


A crust that tastes just like wheat is a pretty poor tasting finished crust. Very seldom is any flavoring material added to a pizza dough, unless you want to include olive oil as a flavoring (actually it is), but in the same sense, yeast is also a flavoring material too since it affects fermentation, which has a significant impact on finished crust flavor as well as texture.
If you just want to make a good tasting finished crust, take a look in the RECIPE BANK for my dough formula and dough management procedure. This formula makes a great tasting, and cruspy terxtured finished crust.
With regard to dough mixing, it has no affect upon the flavor of the finished crust, its all in fermentation and baking, that’s where the flavor is developed.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

ty all ty DR
some bread baking books that i read the TASTE OF BREAD refer to the effect of long mixing on the flavor of final dough exposing the dough to air and in turn oxidation .
ty again for your time

They sure got that one wrong. Bread flavor is a result of a number of factors including formulation, ingredients used, water absorption (soft doughs develop a slightly different flavor profile than stiff doughs due the the different blend of acids produced during fermentation), fermentation (time and temperature), and baking (time and temperature). During mixing, exposure of the gluten bonds to air causes some oxidation of the gluten bonds which has a strengthening affect upon the dough. Continental Baking (remember Wonder Bread?) used to have a dough mixing process where they opened the mixer and tumbled the dough at low speed as a finishing step to further strengthen the dough.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

ty very much
one more question if i could using crisco sold at 9 % can that effect oven spring or gluten development a great deal ?


I’m not sure that I fully understand your question, so please get back to me if I’ve missed the point.
You can add a plastic type of shortening like Crisco as a replacement for oil, such as olive oil without any problems. The amount of Crisco type product to use is the same weight as the oil. The main difference is that the oil should be added to the dough after about two minutes of low speed mixing. The plastic type shortenings (Crisco, butter, margarine, lard, etc.) can be added directly to the mixer alllong with the other dry ingredients. No need to hold it back like you do with oil. When making thick crust pizzas, or focaccia, you might find that you get slightly higher volume (crust height) with the use of a shortening over oil.
I hope this answers your question.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

ty very much indeed DR