OK, time to help PLEASE!!

Whoa…there’s a poster that I haven’t seen for awhile. Welcome back Jrokk. Glad to see your still around. Missed some of your advice.


You can always come to me for advice or money. Well I don’t have any money, but advice is always free.


Good to see you J_Rokk. Never really got to say “Thanks” for your valuable contributions to this board. It has helped me alot.

You can always come to me for advice or money. Well I don’t have any money, but advice is always free.


I start sending you a daily email asking for money so that I’m the first one to ask after you become rich!

J_r0kk I’ts great to hear from you, I hope all is well!

The businesses would have no use for the T&B pizza… however all of their employees who are about to clock out and then go home and feed their hungry families DO! If you can make one delivery to 10 people, that is a lot easier then doing 10 deliveries to 10 people!

I have visited canukfanladies location and visited. She is passionate with a capital “P” about the take and bake business model.In fact, I have never met anybody who is so dedicated to making an idea work. We went over food costs etc etc. She has minimal staff ( nothing to cut there) . A high quality product that is presented/packaged very well. She more than did her homework on the take and bake thing before opening. Her premises are clean and inviting and in a relatively busy mall.
Some of you have suggested delivery, going after school orders, business lunch orders etc etc. I agree, however, she does not have the oven capacity nor staffing required.I tried and tried to think of a different way to put this, and failed. Here it is… there is a reason that you are surrounded by “regular” pizzerias and not take and bake operations.
PLEASE do not be offended. You have MORE than tried your idea. I am in awe of your never say die attitude. I think that if you review the advise you have received it overwhelmingly advises you to turn towards a regular delivery/take out, and or lunch trade type business model to try and save your dream. Unfortunately that requires n upgrade to your oven capacity.
I hope you don’t all flame me for telling it the way it is.

Well I have been battling the battle, and thank you all so much!
First off, boatnut is right, I do not have a huge capacity. I CANNOT take a last minute large order. As he so politely put it, I have limited staff, meaning I work alone most of the time. I only have staff Thursday-Saturday. And only in the evening, every pizza, every pepper, every pound of dough, is made by me. And boatnut! I think you are great guy, and I NEVER EVER get angry with someone trying to help me!! NEVER! You guys can all say anything that needs to be said, we are business people right, not babies, even though, as far as many of you would think, I probably am a baby, lol!

Here is my biggest problem. I am NOT able to put in a typical pizza oven. I do have a proveyer oven. I can bake a large pizza in 4 minutes in it, how? Ahh, that is where the T&B thingy that I started with was a good idea, lol. I wrap my pizza’s with parchment paper to bake them on. soooooooooo, i bake em on parchment too! no pan to heat and cook through, no oil needed, etc…ANYWAY, I am allowed to use that type of oven, and I can stack em…so…Is it a unanimous? Do I increase oven capacity or forget it? Do delivery, or walk away from the business?

j_orrk, I am EXCITED TO SEE YOU!!! I am so honored you decided to post on my page, I appreciate it so much!

I will email you tomorrow, I am exhusted, I just finished all my prep for tomorrow, and getting stuff ready for dough in the morning. Now I just have to sweep and wash all my floors, then im heading home.

I am going to do a poll, everyone vote ok? Then I will go from there!

Thank you all so very much!

J-orrk idea is a great one, but I’m going to take it a step further, because of your unique establishment.

Rather than doing a school night—offer pizzas to fundraising classes, sports groups, any other non-profit that needs to raise money, at a discounted price. Let them go out and take pre-orders and collect money, come back to you and say we need these pre-ordered pizzas. You make them and box them and take them to the group and have them distribute. (make the delivery date Tuesday or Wednesday). You may also want to provide coolers, or tell the group that they will need to have coolers, to keep your product at its best.

Make sure you have a nice label on the pizzas that says it comes from Canukfanlady with your address and phone number.

Atleast with Papa Murphy’s, they’re pizzas are already discounted because they don’t have the need for extra staff and propane and delivery drivers.

Instead of buying another oven, what about using the money for more marketing. I don’t know what marketing your doing but can there be more? If not, then what about doing a slight price increase? How about outside banners if it’s a busy mall? You could do hot subs in a small oven or some other menu items. Not sure what your menu has on it, but what about salads, all different kinds. You can do pizza by the slice for lunch. Don’t know what kind of traffic is outside your store, but you can go outside of it and offer samples with coupons. If they try it, then the taste will be in their mouth. Flyering stores in your mall is another idea. The coupons don’t have to be fancy, it’s something you may be able to do yourself.

Another idea is trying to re-negotiate rent. Offer to add a couple months to the end of your lease if they will allow you to pay half rent for four months. That’s an example, but the landlord may want something in return to help you out.

I’m just trying to throw out different ideas to work off.

I’m not looking to rain on your parade, but did you do a valid business plan @ start-up?

Is the model the right 4 your neighborhood/market?

Or did you decide to do a T & B because you wanted to, but is that what the market wants/demands?

I used to be a wholesaler, doing a modified T & B, but when I opened up for retail, everyone wanted cooked pies…the wholesale side prospered and the retail side just did finished pies…out of 100 pies on the retail side, maybe 1 was a T & B…

Examine your plan, and your heart and the market…

I’m sorry to hear of your situation. I hope I can help with my comments.

I’m wondering if you’re targeting the right market? In other words, you say you have 9 chains as your competitors. But are they really your “direct” competitors? With T&B, I would think your true competitors are the grocery stores selling frozen pizzas (some may even be selling fresh ones too).

There have been some great suggestions in this thread. But these seem to be more suited for Full Bake Pizzerias.

Instead of seeing how Pizza Hut and Dominoes are marketing themselves, maybe you should focus more on how Digiorno and Freschetta are doing things? I recall one of them saying “Fresh Pizzeria Pizza at Home”. Now, I’m sure your pizza is way better than Grocery Store bought pizzas. So, how do you differ? Well, you make the pizzas fresh! You make them custom to the customers’ likings! You’re local! They’re made by you with love (not some huge robot machine in a factory in the states :wink:) Etc.!

Why do people opt to buy T&B vs. Full Bake? I would think timing and price as being the two biggest reasons. You have to build your marketing around educating why T&B works around their schedule and is more economical than having pizzas delivered (shooting myself in foot :evil:).

And with your question about adding baking capabilities, you will cross-over to our side. But you may cause confusion to the consumer. I would think hard about this move.

Here are some suggestions to maybe build sales:

  1. Flyers on cars- I never do these myself, but your case may be different. A flyer that expresses the benefits of buying your T&B pizzas, targeted at grocery stores. It may work.
  2. Food Stamps/EBT- I don’t know how it is in Canada, but here in California, T&B places can sell their pizzas and take Food Stamps/EBT as payment.
  3. Go outbound with your sales. There was a local T&B pizza place by me that used to set up a truck at the entrance to a large subdivision during rush hour. They sold pizzas out of their refrigerated trailer to passerbyers. If you’ve got some companies, schools, gov’t offices, etc. around you, maybe set up there and allow employees to pre-order for a discount.

I think bottom line is you need to keep a differentiation and not classify yourself as a traditional pizza place. You are different and you need to market yourself differently. To go up against the Big Boys, you’ll have a much tougher time.

Good luck. I wish you the best.

This is kind of what I was thinking when boatnut said you are in a busy mall. What kind of foot traffic is in front of your shop? If you could just add slices, I think that may be able to help you a lot. A good slice machine costs a chunk of change, but mine pays for itself once a week and we don’t have much foot traffic specifically in front of our store, just people that are downtown already and can walk a block or two over to us.

                                                 What is a slice machine?

Sorry, poor terminology on my part. A heated display is a better term.

http://www.ckitchen.com/commercial/disp … binet.html

Once upon a time there was a pizza place in the midwest Called Papa Keno’s. They were a small regional chain of 3 or 4 stores. They decided their entire format would be that of a NY style pizzeria and featuring a full service bar. They sold only slices and had plenty of seating. Its a good thing they had plenty of seating because they filled them every day. The average store produced between $20k-$25k in sales every week. I’m sure a good majority of their sales came from the bar, but even if only 30% of their sales came from slices, that would equate to $6,000-$7,500 per week. Maybe slices aren’t a bad idea after all. Something to think about.




k, so no blow, pay taxes…got it! But I already do that, how come i am still struggling??? :frowning:

your product may not be what the market wants &/or there is too much competition for the # of households/business’ in your trade radius…

just because you have a good idea & a good product, may not mean others feel the same way…

I “go w/the flow” when my original ideas peter-out…

as I said b4 - go back to your biz plan (ya made one, right? ) and make the necessary changes & re-invent if need by, to suit your market needs…

I think Patriot hit it. You sound like a very hard working, educated person, but I guess I just don’t understand T & B as a pizza consumer (thought you’d like to hear from a consumer as well). If there are 4 or 5 other Pizza places near you that serve relatively good pizza, people (IMO) are not going to use your product regardless as to how much quality and love you you put in your pie. I can’t imagine having to go in your shop, take home an unbaked pizza, call the wife on my way and say honey fire up the oven I’ll be home in 15 minutes. On Friday night after working all week that’s the last thing most people want to do. This goes against the grain of what the consumer wants in today’s world.

I would keep the T & B on, but start offering a good quality pizza to eat right away as well. If you served baked pizza, I would likely also buy a T & B (use it as a cross sale) and eat it later that weekend. I would not go in just for a T & B.

If I’m wrong, then it’s your job to educate the average consumer and tell us why to use your product.

Thank you for the consumer response :slight_smile: Just to note here, I do bake pizza’s as well. Didnt when I first started, but I do now :slight_smile: The thing I do not do is deliver. But that is in the works. Just so people know…

Still plugging away, have new marketing started, and seeing a response! So I will keep doing what I do, AND MORE!!