Oven Choice (?)

Pizza Shop Talk The Think Tank
1

Trying to get back into the game and am faced with some tough calls due to start up $$$. When I started in 85 the place I worked at had Bakers Pride Double Stack and when I got my own place some years later I had a single Middleby Marshall and loved it.

However, I see a lot of independents with BP vs Middleby Marshall is that mainly due to purchase cost? What is the volume capacity for BP single and double?

Any pros/cons besides not having to watch a Middleby as the pizzas cook?

The last time I used a Bakers Pride was in 85 so my memory is a little rutsty.

Thanks,

Charlie

2

I can’t help you much as far as the Bakers Pride goes, only cooked on a deck for a few months over a dozen years ago. As far as conveyors, there’s alot of choices other than Middleby nowadays. A new Middleby will cost you an arm and a leg, while a well refurbished one will cost as much if not more than the same Edge Ovens I’m using. If you choose to go with conveyors, why not get newer, more efficient technology for less money. As far as decks versus conveyors, that argument can go around and around. All I can say is I’ll put out significantly better and more consistent pizzas out of my conveyors on my busiest of shifts than I would ever hope to out of decks.

3

As I’ve said many times before, the selection of your oven is not just based on price alone, instead, you have to look at your store concept, your product mix, your production numbers, your pizza (if more veggies makes a better pizza is your bit, better give multiple thoughts towards an air impingement oven, unless you’re looking to sell “swamp” pizza), then too there is space (foot print), and to some extent the noise factor (the new, air impingement, ovens are pretty quiet, older ones are not) and lastly, economics of operation (the new air impingement ovens really are gas sippers), and purchase price.
I wrote an article on this topic some time ago, but it probably wouldn’t hurt to write an updated refresher.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

4

did you buy yours new or used, what was the cost? i really don’t want a brick oven, but really did not like the lincons I bought out of an old LC that I used as a top oven for my MM.

5

All of our ovens are new, and of the latest, technology. We don’t buy them as they are on consignment/loan from the manufacturers. Over the years we have had a good number of the Middleby Marshall ovens in here, from the 360 WB to the 536 and now we have the WOW. We have had a similar progression of the Lincoln ovens to where we now have the FASTBAKE. We also have the Advantec and XLT ovens to work with too, and about a year ago we up graded our deck oven to a Marsal deck oven. We have had experience with both gas and electric, and we have good indications that the gas versions out perform the electric counterparts.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

6

I second the opinion on Edge ovens. We have a double stack of Edge 60’s (under $22k) and they bake incredibly well. I have used Middleby’s, Blodgetts, Lincolns, and Xlt ovens and I can’t speak highly enough of the Edge ovens. I am using 30% less therms than with my last ovens, they are much quieter than the previous ovens, and the bake is second to none that I have used. I had a minor issue shortly after the install (on a Friday!) and after calling the owners cell phone they had a repairman out at 10 PM and I had the bottom oven back up by Midnight.

7

I purchased my Edge Ovens brand new last summer. I purchased a triple stack of Edge 60’s with the modulating gas valves for somewhere around 11,000 each. The owner of the company delivered the ovens, set them up himself and stayed to make sure I was completely happy with the cook. I really can’t speak highly enough about the ovens and the customer service I have received.

8

is it just me or do the edge ovens look a little like licons? if anyone can make ovens quiter that is a plus and the price on the website is not bad for a brand new oven.

what about hood systems and a/c? is there a formula to use based on sq/ft? my last store i could never really keep cool. i went into a dominos the other day and had goose bumps it was so cold in there. NICE :smiley:

9

does anyone know what kind of ovens chuck e cheese or perky’s pizza use?

10

I happen to meet one of the engineers for edge at the Hotel we both were stying at for the Pizza Expo…He was a very helpful guy and shared how they did some things different. I thought they sounded like a good product. I however am still trying to accpet a conveyor oven. Does anyone here use both?..Is there a real difference ?

11

We are looking to move towards the conveyor/impingement ovens for consistency, as Paul has attested, and because it seems they would be a better fit for our think crusted, heavily topped pies.

Is there a consensus of opinion here as to the best among XLT’s, Edge and Wow’s? I think Tom said you couldn’t go wrong with either and the Wow’s I hear are by far the most expensive???

12

Why do you think they call them “WOW!”? Because that’s what you say when you see the price!

13

I have not used the wows but I replaced my XLT’s with the Edge ovens and would do it again in a heartbeat. They are quieter, put out less heat, and burn less gas. Both ovens cook very well and you couldn’t go wrong with either. I believe both cook better than the middleby 570’s I used in the past.

14

[quote="perfect pizzas
I replaced my XLT’s with the Edge ovens and would do it again in a heartbeat. They are quieter, put out less heat, and burn less gas. Both ovens cook very well and you couldn’t go wrong with either. I believe both cook better than the middleby 570’s I used in the past.[/quote]

Hi perfect:

If you went to the expense of replacing your XLT ovens they were probably several years old.

The first few years of production the high efficiency burners and the modulating gas valves were not available. XLT ovens produced then were vastly less efficient than later models that utilized those improvements as were other ovens of the time.

XLT up graded their ovens to the high efficiency burners and modulating gas valves as soon as those improvements became available. If you had the earlier models there is little question that they were less efficient, louder and blew more air out the ends.

That new technology reduced gas consumption, reduced sound levels and end blow out substantially.

The Edge oven was brought to market after the introduction of the latest gas burners and valves so they would be more efficient than XLT, Lincoln, Middleby or any ovens produced prior to those improvements being available and their use by those ovens up to that time.

XLT and any other, on the ball, manufacturer is constantly improving and upgrading their product. In fact the ovens XLT is shipping this month are a vast improvement over the ones they were shipping just last month.

The XLT now has an entirely new concept in burner technology called Quiet Fire. That’s because the blower motor that is part of the existing style burners has been eliminated and an entirely new concept in burner design is used.

Eliminating the blower motor from the burner drastically reduced the sound level, burns less gas and dramatically reduces the air pressure in the oven resulting in even lower heat loss out the open ends of the oven.

In addition to those improvements XLT has extended their warranty to five years.

Five year warranties have never been available in the oven industry up to now.

We will see how many other manufacturers have the confidence in their ovens to match that warranty.

George Mills

15

We also like the edge ovens. We got a chance to see them bake at the napics show in OH and also a chance to talk to them at the Vegas show. My husband and I talked to them about the two year warranty vs the five year warranty and they had a really great alternative that we really liked. The edge oven has a removable control can and they will sell this as an optional item. they say it takes about ten minutes to change( 6 or 8 bolts and 3 plugs…I think). If your oven fails all you have to do is change the control can and return the other to the factory for repairs. Our store is in a rural area and this seems like a great idea. They explained that we don’t need approval to exchange the cans and we would not have to wait for a service company to come and look at the ovens and then have to order parts or get warranty approval. We can do it ourselves (when i say we I am refering to my husband :smiley: ) and this keeps us from having to deal with a service company. I am contacting them this week to get them to come to my store and test bake for us now that we have a dough recipe nailed down. I would also add that everybody I talked to at the company is very knowledgable about ovens and the pizza industry in general. They seem like a great group of people to work with. I will let you know how the oven demonstration and test bake goes.

16

[
quote=“cbaxter”]what about hood systems and a/c? is there a formula to use based on sq/ft? my last store i could never really keep cool. i went into a dominos the other day and had goose bumps it was so cold in there. NICE :smiley:
[/quote]

Hi Cbaxter:

As regards hood systems and A/c.

The ventilation system and A/c that is used in a pizza shop or restaurant is critical for several reasons.

Comfort in the shop and cost of operation being primary considerations after proper extraction of the cooking vapors.

The hood should be designed so that it extracts a minimum of air from the building as money has been spent to cool or warm that air depending on the season.

Properly designed, tested and certified hoods of say 11 ft. X 6 ft. need only pull 880 CFM of air from the building. Some hoods that size of uncertified designs would extract 4000 CFM of expensive conditioned air.

As to the size of The air conditioner. That depends on several considerations. Seating is a big factor, people in an enclosed space create substantial heat. Single or multiple floor building, any windows facing south and size of the facility are all factors.

Almost any HVAC contractor can calculate the required A/C tonnage based on above but often they do not take into sufficient consideration the heat generated by the equipment. The average delivery carry out shop with no seating will need 5-ton of A/C just to break even with the heat produced by the equipment. Larger Kitchen installations will create more heat and need more A/C to offset those temperatures. A 1200 sq. ft. pizza delivery-carry out with a certified hood as described would need at least 12 ton of A/C

Many suppliers will supply hoods that extract air at higher CFM and install a make up air unit to supply the additional air into the building. This may be a somewhat less costly system to buy, but operating costs can be so high as to be prohibitive. Most make up air units are equipped to heat the in coming air in the winter but do not cool the air in the summer. The result is the make up air unit picks up extremely hot summer air off the roof and dumps it into the building. Those type make up air units are responsible for most shops that are excessively warm in the summer.

George Mills