I went to his bootcamp in March. He has good ideas and his newsletter ($47 monthly) has good info in it. He is always selling you something. He is a good Direct Response marketer. Try his newsletter free for 3 months.
I bought the system and there are some good features. My thoughts on the system is it’s ok. Not knowing a lot about marketing, this sytem gives you some info.That being said I don’t market at all and my business grows everyday. I put out a great New York product and concentrate on the food more than anything else. If you want info his system will give you some of that, along with Kameron’s. My advise is have a great product and customer service. These seem to work for me.
Yeah. If were as easy for everyone as “bake it and they will come” more pizzerias would still be in business. Imagine what that business could be with a comprehensive marketingplan . . . or just a few doorhangers here and there.
SaraH, you will find loads of useful marketing information, advise and strategies in the Thnk Tank archives if you have time to look through there. Key words to start with would be: doorhangers, advertising, marketing, flyers, boxtoppers.
As for the value or effectiveness of any of the ‘packaged’ systems . . . your mileage will vary by market and time of year. My particular market isn’t as demanding of a system like Kameron’s. I use lots of the elements and concepts from various places, just not a big book of eveerything.
Never said it was easy. I spent a lot of dead days at the start. But after 5 years we have done well. if you want recipes I will email them. Spending 20 years in New York and New Jersey learning my craft gave me an advantage. Quality works better, over just a ok product and marketing. Just what I learned in the tri state area.
I have to disagree with you. Product is important and I believe everything you say. I am sure you are making a nice living and serve a tremendous pie.
However there is way too much evidence to the contrary that disproves your point.
Great product, great service and no marketing equals thincrust defying the odds and makinga nice living. I say defying the odds because something allowed you to make where many others have failed despite having a great pie and great service. Could be you got lucky with your location or any number of other factors?
Subpar pie, subpar service and outstanding marketing can make millionaires out of ordinary pizza owners. Why do Dominos, Pizza Hut, Papa Johns make more than you?
Well Pastaman you bring up a good point, now here is my point, do you think all of the independent Pizzerias in New York market as much as The big 3. I don’t think so. there average sales are probably around 2 to 3 million a year. I don’t think the big 3 have those number in that area. I still have freinds in business in New Jersey and I know their numbers are around that mark. Are they going to tell anyone. Nope never. In my area I have had 6 pizzerias go out of business in the past 1 1/2 year. And they marketed like Mother Fer’s. Don’t know what I’ve done but it seems to work. Oh I forgot to mention the spot that I’m in has been here for 22 years. There have been 16 different pizzerias including a Domino’s and Little ceasar. None making more than a year. We are in our 5th year. I must be LUCKY.
Quality is far more important than quantity in marketing, sometimes. You can’t just fling 200,000 copies of crap into the marketplace and expect success.
Just because they were advertising prolifically does not mean the were MARKETING EFFECTIVELY. Nor does it mean that a marketing plan is not essential in success to most markets. 80%+ failure rate bears this out . . .
There are hundreds of variables that go into having a successful restaurant. And they vary from location to location. My business plan in your area could go bankrupt. Your business plan in my area may go bankrupt. I’d definately say luck is responsible for restaurant success in alot of cases. You had to make decisions, you made the right decisions and got lucky. Sometimes we make decisions that we think are right, only to find out they bombed. Which I’d consider unlucky.
That’s the difference between the Northeast and the rest of the country view on restaurants. I need a Buisness plan or I need a marketing idea. I do believe those are parts of the business but not the most important part, to me it is a quality stand alone great product, not good product. I think it’s that simple. That’s the best Business or marketing plan out there. I see many people go into the restaurant buisness that should not. They got some extra money and all their freinds tell them they are great cooks. Instant restauranteur. Also I think we are getting away from the topic, It’s about Rory Fatt and is his system. As a owner of his and Kameron systems. I would say not to invest. I would talk to the people on these boards, The men and women in the trenches everyday struggling to make it. Just my veiw
“As a owner of his and Kameron systems. I would say not to invest”
But why would you say no thincrust? paying some professional $200 a month is not a whole lot of money. That professional is very smart & experienced too. Could provide better value to your adv. therefore, saving more than 200 mo. by applying his/her expertise.
I mean, i could learn from here. implement some ideas and may come close to what a trained professional would do. but look at the time and effort i have to allocate to the adv. it would be much easier to throw $200 mo. and reap sweater rewards.(only if you find’em lol).
Hmmm, guest why would I say no. Well here is Kamrons story in a nut shell. He bought a pizzeria that was failing and from what he said it had a very good product so he used his experitise in advertising and with in 3 years he went from 3,000 a week to 1. something million a year. Great story but I would prfer to listen to people like the Moose tooth in Alaska, 5.7 milliona year, Amicias’ 3 million per store. Bronx Pizza 2 million a year. I have 2 buddies in New Jersey that average 2 million per year for the past 15 years. Most of these people have been in buisness for 10 or more years. These are the people that have shown a quality product with professional people makes money. They did not have a great business plan nor did they do a lot of marketing. Great product great sales. I would prefer to listen to them, they have succeeded, and they are still doing well in today’s market.
Here is another thought…
What do most people think is the top, or at least a top two as a BEST marketing source?
I’d say I consistently hear…WORD OF MOUTH.
You will not get this unless you produce, not good but GREAT product and GREAT service. (not the best coupon gimic - however that will create VOLUME)
I have heard customers say time and time again…Oh they have an AWSOME product that is why we go there. Or their staff is incredible, no matter how busy they are they always have time to interact with the kids.
I challange my staff to ask guests questions like…We are looking to order BBQ this weekend, who do you think we should call. People will ALWAYS say…Oh xyz, you gotta order xyz they have the BEST BBQ in town! They will not say order qqq, they are pretty good. This will show them word of mouth advertising 1st hand. I then say lets MAKE sure if anybody as them for pizza it is our shop they are bragging about.
Now with that said, KK does teach…if u beleive you have a GREAT product then put your money where your mouth is, as in the million $ letter, which basically contends if your product is GREAT, they will be back!
Additionally, there is a difference in a pizza shop less than 1 yr old and a shop in the 5th yr. There shouldn’t be a need to market AS much for the 5yr shop UNLESS the product & service are not reason enough for guests to return (IE poor quality or poor service). AND even if your guest feels u got the best pie in 30 miles, if you give poor service or rude service you may loose them 4ever!
I would all out agree that you cannot beat word of mouth for generating customers. The only problem that I have foudn is that I cannot plan it, direct it, schedule it or measure it very effectively as a business man. I can do lots of things to influence it or make the conditions more conducive for it, but that is the best I have been able to manage myself. Others may have different experiences.
I have found that I market MORE in my 3rd and 4th years, and more importantly I market DIFFERENTLY. I have to spend effort and money maintaining and retaining loyal customers, as well as increasing their impact on my revenues. Existing customers offer a ripe environment for upselling and increasing frequency. This is a whole different tactic and direction than generating new customers.
I still have to spend effort generating new customers to develop growth, and replace the attrition. This will vary from market to market, but customers move, lose interest, get allergies, have medical conditions, and some will die. Somehow one has to account for the 10% to 20% turnover each year of the customer base.
The marketplace changes based on demographics, family groeth due to births and people moving into households, job improvements and posses, new construction, nearby inflow of people, changes in property taxes, new officials elected, new ordinances, new competition moving into the area. There are hundreds of things that will impact my marketplace each year that I pay attention to and include in my business plan review . . . . as well as my marketing plan.
I run a store for one of the big chains for ten years now and with t.v. paper print box toppers mailers doorhangers and so on…ive been through it all… at the most 2% return is great… when we put it on sale it sells when its not a focus product the mix slows down…
I have been very successful with sale growth in four different stores with my company doing the samething every time.when the marketing brings them in you must… 1 be clean 2 have a consistent product (giving then what they pay for) 3 you must be fast if you are running 40+minutes delivery time im coming after your $$$ because they just dont want to wait… traffic to your shop will tell you more then sales… hold your team to your high standards they touch more food and customers then you do just some of my thoughts all you guys are great i envy all of you who have the guts to dive in and make it a go for your self someday i might do the same happy sales to all 8)
Didn’t mean to offend you with the lucky comment just trying to make a point. You bring up NYC area. You have to realize this area is like no other part of the country because of the population density.
I think some people fail to realize what marketing encompasses. If you have a location that sees 100,000 people per day pass in front of your store then your location can be your marketing. Some effective signage to grab their attention and they will try your product. A respectable product not even great and they will comeback again especially when they pass by your store 5 tmies a week.
What about the guy that has 10,000 people pass by his store in a day? Suddenly the rules have changed.
Anyway my 2 cents is marketing is the key to a successful business. If you are making 1.5 million with no marketing then I can guarentee you that effective marketing could push you to 2 million easy.
I own both Rory and Kamron’s products. I think both are way overpriced. Kamron is small on content, but is organized and has good information. Rory provides a ton of material presented in a completely unorganized manner. With that being said you can easily get your money back from both which is why they can sell the product at the price they do. Just 1 idea from the book that fits your concept and you can pay for the entire product.
I think one of the problems I have seen with their products is that people choose to run promotions or ads that don’t fit their restaurant’s concept.
Pasta man I didn’t take personal. I was just breaking balls. Like you I own both systems but I have not done any of it. And truth be told if I did some marketing I would grow larger than I am. You are right. People should do marketing I agree with it. My only point is the products many people are putting out are not very good. Guys buy frozen dough from Supplies or ready made eggplant so on and so on. I feel the independents have a great chance in the market of today to stand out. Let the chains do what they do. They put out a ok product, I feel most independents should strive to make it better and make it right. And Jay good for you, keep up that marketing!!!