sub hoagie rolls dough question

Pizza Shop Talk The Think Tank
1

Hi All,

I have learned so much from this forum. I will be opening a pizza shop in Pittsburgh Pa within the next couple months. I went to the vegas pizza expo and was amazed by the the support and technology the industry has.

I have my pizza dough management down pat, but have a question with sub hoagie rolls. Here is the think tank forum recipe from tom:
* Flour (strong bread flour) 100.00% 25 pounds
* Salt 2.00% 8 ounces

* Sugar 3.00% 12 ounces
* Oil or Shortening 5.00% 1.25 pounds
* Compressed yeast 3.50% 14 ounces
* Water (variable)57.00% 14.25 pounds

Questions:

Can I use Instant Dry yeast as a substitute for the compressed yeast @ what %?

Will the substitution change the flavor, bake, or texture profile?

I have perforated metal (sub pans?) can I roll them out and proof them on the pans?

Please see picture

Thanks For the help!

Mike

2

Mike;
Welcome to the wonderful world of PIZZA!.
Yep, not a problem using IDY. To replace 14-ounces of compressed yeast with IDY you will need to use 4.75-ounces of IDY plus 9-ounces of additional water in the dough formula. Just add the IDY dry, directly to the flour. It won’t change anything.
Those pans are made for proofing, and that’s just what you should do. Put the formad dough pieces in the screen pans and allow then to proof about 45-minutes, or so, then dock (make 3 or 4 diagional cuts across the top of each roll with a razor blade or sharp, serrated knife, spray with water, and bake. Be sure to give the screen pans a very light coating of pan release oil before each use.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

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Thanks for the help Tom,

Hopefully this year I will make it to your pizza production class in KS.

A few followup questions:

How much dough should I use for a 12 " roll?

What are the new bakers percents for IDY and water, I am going to scale down the batch at first.

Do I need to let the dough cold ferment (I use plastic bags in the fridge for now)for the pizza

I am going to use 53381 General Mills gold metal is this ok?

I have herd of using lard for bread and pizza making, does this impact the quality?

And One side baking note :

I have Vulcan single deck ovens 50,000 btu’s per oven (one burner per deck) Currently I don’t have stones on them.
My test oven is a small gas unit that I have had good results with. Can I bake right on the steel decks of the vulcan( I use screens ) or would stones like fibrament d be required. I am making NY thin crust. I bake my pies at around 550 degrees.

Once again thanks for all of the help!

Mike

4

For a 12" roll you will be using about 7-ounces of dough weight.
The amount of IDY is 4.75-ounces, so divide the ingredient weight by the flour weight and multiply by 100 to get the bakers percent so 4.74 divided by 400 (number of ounces in 25-pounds) X 100 = 1.06% IDY.
The water was originally set at 57%, so just increase this by 2 to 3% and you get 59 to 60% absorption.
Fermenting the dough overnight inthe cooler should work just fine.
As for your oven, that’s a bread/pastry oven, not a pizza oven. Personally, I wouldn’t put any money into it as you just don’t have sufficient BTU capacity to do anything with it. Baking on the steel deck is not very good. Baking on a stone deck is much better, so for now, I’d get a few pieces of unglazed floor tile and put them into the oven to get thoroughly heated, then bake on the tiles.
525 to 550F is a good baking temperature.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

5

Oops!!!
Forgot we were baking hoagies, not pizza! Disregard my comments on the oven. That oven will work just fine for baking hoagies. Your baking temperature should be in the 400 to 425F range. Yes, you can put those screen pans right on the steel deck to bake. The baking time will be something in the 15 to 20-minute range.
Sorry about that.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

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Thanks for the help Tom,

Came out very tasty, I used butter as the shortening.

Nice crust not to hard, crumb had nice bite and squishy-ness to it!

Next time I will try lard as the shortening.

I got some skills to develop when it comes to standardizing the shape and size of the rolls

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Cross section of roll

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Thanks for the pix. Now I want to get after it. BTW, where did you get those pans?

I have this nutty idea. If you shoved the dough through a sausage stuffer, I’d think the output would be this long rope of a consistent thickness. Cut to length (diameter may have to be adjusted) and voila! Of course, that’s me THINKING, which rarely works out well.

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Here’s a similar one I think. http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/ite … guette-pan

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Snowman;
Actually, that isn’t too far off base as that is close to the way the AMF SBD, Cummings Eagle and AMF Rotary Bread Dividers work in concept. Both utilize a screw type delivery system that moves the dough to an extrusion manifold/port where the dough is cut to length (length = weight) by a rotary or flying knife. The dough then goes through a rounder, then a rest period called intermediate proof, and then to forming (molding in the case of bread).
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

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I obtained the pans on eBay, I think they make the same style in baking silicone now too.
You can buy them new here, the have some different kinds, though I am sure you can find them cheaper

http://www.bakedeco.com/dept.asp?id=923

I am going to wind up scaling and forming my dough (no extruder). I think with enough practice I can fill all eight pans quickly.

I am on the hunt for a dough divider , I think it might might speed things up.

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In your search for a divider, take a look at the Dutchess Equipment or Summerset dough dividers. These are manually operated and don’t take up much more space than a dough sheeter. Make sure the unit you are looking at is designed to divide the dough into the pieces within your specified scaling/weight range, THIS IS ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL. The way they operate is as follows:

  1. Cut your dough into pieces of the correct weight. For example, if the machine divides 8-pieces at a time, you will scale the dough piece 8 times the individual scaling weight.
  2. Place the dough piece into the pan provided with the machine and lightly dust with flour.
  3. Drop the ring around the pan of dough by pushing down of a trip leaver, and then pull down on the long handle forcing the dividing blades into the dough.
  4. Lift up on the operating handle and remove the pan of divided dough pieces.
  5. Immediately dump out the pan of dough pieces onto a lightly floured bench and round into balls.
  6. Allow the dough balls to rest (intermediate proof) for about 10-minutes, then shape into loaf form and place into baskets/screen pans for final proofing and baking.
    If I remember correctly Dutchess Machinery has a pretty good picture of one on their web site, and you might be able to get an up close look at one in a local retail bakery. Remember, when set up to do smaller items, like hotdog and hamburger buns, a flat “pallet” is used under the large dough piece, and with larger weights, the pan is used. They make these units to do both dividing only (this is the one that you will probably want to look at) and also both divide and round at the same time. I don’t think you can get one for the larger dough weights that both divide and round.
    Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
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Sorry to tag onto your post, but I have a quantity of these pans, well “seasoned” that I purchased thinking we’d do our own hoagie rolls…if anyone has interest.