I want to know if thier is any thing wrong with how we do dough. this his how we have been doing dough for ever seems to work well, just looking for ideas and things to improve on, the dough hold for about 36-48 hours in the cooler
Here it is, This is a pan style pizza.
We use 7.5 quarts 95 degree water
27 lbs flour bleached bakers flour
1.5 cups yeast instant
1.5 cups sugar
1 cup salt
16 oz oil
I add the water and the oil with the sugar and yeast to get it nicely mixed up for about 30 seconds and then ad the flour and the salt on top of the flour so it does not kill the yeast in the water sugar mixure
Mix 4 minutes. Then we cut it and ball it up, let it set for 5 mintues and then use the dough sheeter to roll them out and set them in oiled pizza pans and stack them up and let them proof for about 1.5 hours and then put them in the walk in after they have risen a bit to the edge of the pan, so they are ready to use for the day
I would wait to put the oil in. Maybe 2 minutes. I used to do it the way you are. The change seems to give the flour time to hydrate more and makes a crisper crust.
I just like seeing how vastly different we all are in our base recipes, and yet, we all serve “pizza”. You are WAY over the yeast and the oil we use, and we’re like the others. We add our oil in last after the flour, salt, yeast, etc. has time to work into the flour and the flour has had time to hydrate. Dr. Tom will preach that method as well I believe.
In addition to the other comments, I have a concern over the temperature of the water. We use water at between 65 and 75F, depending upon the room temperature to achieve our targeted 80 to 85F finished dough temperature. At this temperature the dough holds very well and performs great through the third day in the cooler. With 95F water, your finished dough temperature has to be significantly higher than this, so it will be more difficult to cool down when you put it into the cooler. Also, withthat higher finished dough temperature, your cross stack time must be terribly long, meaning that you have to hang around the shop longer, if you make your dough at the end of the day, before you can down-stack it and kiss it good night.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
My problem with the cooler water is that we put our dough into oiled 2" deep pizza pans and place the rolled out dough into the pans and stack them with seperators so they can rise, we like the dough to proof all the way to the edge of the pan and become about 1.5" thick of nice fluffy dough, then when it cools in the cooler its thick and firm when we make our pies.
And when the dough is cooler it will not proof like we need it to, unless i am missing something, how ever there is no way we can use our dough 3 days old, it falls like a pancake after 48 hours
maybe i will take some pictures today to show what i am talking about , i want to perfect my dough
My problem with the cooler water is that we put our dough into oiled 2" deep pizza pans and place the rolled out dough into the pans and stack them with seperators so they can rise, we like the dough to proof all the way to the edge of the pan and become about 1.5" thick of nice fluffy dough, then when it cools in the cooler its thick and firm when we make our pies.
And when the dough is cooler it will not proof like we need it to, unless i am missing something, how ever there is no way we can use our dough 3 days old, it falls like a pancake after 48 hours
maybe i will take some pictures today to show what i am talking about , i want to perfect my dough
Joker;
Yep, allowing it to rise before cooling will significantly reduce your ability to hold the dough much beyond 48-hours. This is why it is always good to know how the dough is being managed. I’m familiar with the process that you’re using, and you’re right, you can use warm water. My response was based on managing the dough in ball form. Once you open the dough as you are, it can cool much more efficiently, and that’s why you can get away with what you’re doing. I like to allow the dough to proof to a predetermined height, then spray it with oil, and place it in the cooler on open racks for cooling, normally allowing several hours to cool the dough thoroughly, then lid or cover the pans and put away for later use.
Tom Lehmann/the Dough Doctor
Joker;
I can’t comment on the amounts of any of the ingredients as it is presented as a “RECIPE” in volumetric portions rather than in weight measures as a “FORMULA”. It you want to portion the ingredients out and then weigh the portions, I’ll be glad to show you how to convert the recipe into a formula based on ingredient percentages.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
Joker;
Here we go, grab your handy calculator.
Flour is always equal to 100%.
Now, multiply the flour weight by 16 to get the flour weight in ounces.
Divide the weight of each ingredient by the weight of the flour, and then multiply by 100, and you will see the correct percentage for that ingredient in the display window.
Example:
27 X 16 = 432 ounces of flour.
Water is 15-pounds so multiply X 16 = 240-ounces of water. 15 divided by 432 = 0.55555555 X 100 = 55.5%
Sugar: 10 divided by 432 X 100 = 2.31%
Salt: 9 divided by 432 X 100 = 2.08%
IDY: 8 divided by 432 X 100 = 1.85%
Oil: 20 divided by 432 X 100 = 4.63%
From this, I would say that your salt is a little on the high side, typically we like to see it at about 1.75% (432 X 1.75 and press the “%” key and read 7.56-ounces in the display window. Aside from that, everything looks to be in good balance for a thick crust pizza.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
I think they’re saying that it’s high because they are used to seeing it in the 0.375% to possibly 0.5% range for IDY. With your specific process (way of managing the dough) higher yeast levels are perfectly acceptable.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
Joker;
The name of the game to getting good shelf life out of your dough in the cooler is “dough management”. To get the maximum shelf life, here are the things to do:
Yeast level not to exceed 0.375% IDY; 0.5% ADY; 1% compressed yeast.
Adjust the dough water temperature to give you a finished dough temperature in the 75 to 80F range.
Take the dough directly from the mixer to the bench for scaling and balling.
Take the dough boxes to the cooler as quickly as possible as you fill them with dough balls.
Process all of the dough into dough balls within 20-minutes of completion of mixing.
Cross stack the dough boxes in the cooler. (16-ounces and less = 2-hours; 17 to 22-ounces = 2.5 hours; over 22-ounces = 3-hours cross stack time.
Help your cooler to maintain a constant temperature by having plastic strip certains installed over the door opening.
You should be able to get a full three days in the cooler, and if you drop the finished dough temperature to something closer to 70F you should be able to add an additional day to that.
Tom Lehmann/the Dough Doctor
I was under the impression that the 7 steps are for a normal dough management
We open the dough as you call it with the way we do it
We need the dough to be out of the mixer, cut , balled, and rolled our and placed into the pans and stack them to rise for 1.5 hours or so
We are using the pizza pans that we cook the pizzas in for this. Stacked with separators so when the dough goes in the cooler it’s tall and fluffy and has grown the the edge of the pan and is ready to use 2 hours after going in the cooler
So all we have to do is grab the Pan out and make the pizza. Right now with sales at 14k a week holding the dough is not an issue since everyday we go threw all the pans
But when it’s slower it would be nice to have the dough hold longer than 36-48 hours without a new style of dough being created
Joker;
Those are the steps that you would need to take to get the extended shelf life from your dough in the cooler. As I had indicated in one of my other responses, there really isn’t anything that I am aware of that you can do, using your existing process to get a longer shelf life in the cooler, it’s just the nature of the beast.
You can’t make a hot dough, use high yeast levels, and ferment the dough, and then refrigerate it with expectations of it lasting much more than 36-hours. I normally tell people to expect 24-hours in the cooler, but as all doughs are different, some may go as long as 36-hours or a little more, but that is the exception.
A high protein flour, such as All Trumps might be able to provide a little more resistance to collapse, depending upon the protein content of the flour that you are presently using.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor