I am trying to get a littler crispier pie crust than I currently have. I backed off the sugar to slow down the browning and allow for a little longer bake but it didnt help much. the pie comes out not bad but gets soft on the bottom and crust (cornicione) rather quickly. I know it “goes down hill” from the time it hits a box or pan, but would like to improve it if possible. I’ve eaten some pies with that “crunch” when you bite it and the slice holds up a little stiffer than my “limp” slices…
I was wondering if anyone sees anything in my dough formula that could help. I am baking a NY style with a BPY602 at 525 degrees… been open for about 2 years now. The pies starts out right on the stone than goes to a screen once it sears up enough on the bottom to move with a peel. I have also been putting the pie on a grate (shelf from a prep cooler) to allow it to “breathe” and release some steam before placing it in box or on pan.
All Trumps
H2O 60%
IDY .02%
Salt 1.5%
Sugar 1%
EVOO 4.5%
yeast goes in bowl
water approx room temp 80 degrees goes in
mix one minute
sugar goes in
mix one minute
salt goes in
mix one minute
oil goes in
mix one -2 minutes
stop mixer and add flour(50 lbs)
mix on low speed in hobart 60qt for 7-8 minutes until pulling off side of bowl
comes out around 83-85 degrees
handles pretty well for balling
get in to cooler as soon as we get it rolled…45min
leave cross stacked for 1.5-2 hours
use next day…unless really busy, than it some gets used that night…
the one thing I dont do is pull out dough trays an hour or so before stretching…I’ve got 5 different size pies and space does not allow for this
I believe most operators add the water, flour/goodie bag & mix a bit then adding the oil…adding the flour after blending all the ingredients is self defeating
have you ever tried semolina,Anyways we prepare a similar ny style dough recipe from sratch however before preperation of the pie we dip the proofed dough into a bowl of semolina not sominnella.Stretch the dough out to desired diameter,dust pizza peel with semolina,place dough on peel or screen then add toppings.The semolina or fine ground cornmeal adds crispy texture with an artisanal pizza feel.
yeast goes in bowl
water approx room temp 80 degrees goes in
mix one minute
sugar goes in
mix one minute
salt goes in
mix one minute
oil goes in
mix one -2 minutes
stop mixer and add flour(50 lbs)
mix on low speed in hobart 60qt for 7-8 minutes until pulling off side of bowl
comes out around 83-85 degrees
Tom has emphasized time and again not to add the oil until the dough has gone through its initial, approximately 2 minute, mixing. Adding the oil prematurely reduces the absorption of water by the flour.
Look at Tom’s dough information center on the main pmq website and look at Tom’s dough recipes. Also, do a search of Tom’s recent posts, and you will find a lot of basic information that should guide you.
Keeping in mind that I’m far from an expert in regards to dough, I have read here on the think tank that MORE water leads to crspier dough. Maybe try increasing your water % by a couple percent.
Also, Tom has suggested that we are to not mix the salt and yeast together. I did this long time ago and was having trouble with the rise. I kept them separate and it worked.
getting the flour in earlier as Patriot suggested.
increasing the h20 per Paul - I am already at 60% and notice many recipies shoot for 54-58% . Is 62-64% ok?
also, I had also read about keeping the yeast away from the salt (as to not kill the yeast) Bubba…do you add the yeast to the flour, I noticed some do that?
I think so…I just pulled up Toms New York style recipe at www.pizzamaking.com/lehman_nystyle.php it calls for .5 to .75 compressed and states that if using IDY use 1/3 of the compressed amount…that would be between .16 and .25 and I am using .20
although that particular recipe calls for no sugar…possible problem?..he also is at 1% on oil.
He also allows up to 65% water and I’m at 60%…I think I’ll crank up the h20 to 65% tomorrow morning and see what happens…I’ll let you know
You indicated in your opening post that the IDY is at 0.02%, whereas it appears that you intended 0.20%. For a one-day dough, I think I would use more than that. Tom should be able to offer guidance on how much IDY to use for your purposes.
I believe that you will find that 65% hydration for the All Trumps may lead to dough that is quite extensible and difficult to stretch out by hand, especially for a high-diameter skin. A hydration of around 57-58% or maybe a bit more is one that should work for that flour. If you want a bit more crispiness you may want to eliminate or reduce the amount of oil or use a lower bake temperature and a longer bake time so that more of the moisture in the dough is driven out to create a more crispy crust.
I’m guessing that some of your problem might be due to lack of yeast in your dough. The low level of yeast doesn’t provide sufficient leavening to create the needed thermal block in the dough/crust during baking, as a result, much of the heat simply passes therough the dough, and into the sauce and toppings where it is dissipated as steam. Your IDY level of 0.02% is too low, it should be up around 0.375%. You have gravitated to the low yeast level due to the high water temperature that you’re using. Try this; reduct the water temperature to 65F, increase the IDY level to 0.375%, put the water in the bowl first, then add the salt (don’t mix it in) then add the flour and add the IDY right on top of the flour. Mix for 2-minutes at low speed, then add the oil and mix for another minute at low speed, then mix at medium speed for 8 to 10-minutes, or if you mix at low speed, mix for 15-minutes at low speed. You’re looking for a finished dough temperature of 80 to 85F. In case you’re wondering where the sugar went, I suggest deleting it, but if you want to use it, add it to the water along with the salt. Immediately after mixing, take the dough to the banch for scaling and balling, then innediately to the cooler, cross stack for 2-hours, down stack and the dough will be ready to use on the following day. To use the dough, remove about a three hour supply of dough from the cooler, leave it covered and allow it to temper AT room temperature for 60 to 90-minutes before using the dough. The dough will be good to use for up to 3-hours once you begin using the dough. The high absorption of your dough will also contribute to a crispier crust as it allows the dough to raise better during baking.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
