Ultra Max Holman Conveyor ovens

Anyone use this ovens and care to review them? There afordable and compact with an 18’ wide belt. I was checking out an Licolhn Impringer with a 32" wide belt (6 years old) at a pizza shop in Vancouver for 4500$ and they are replacing them with these Ultra Max ovens with a double stack, actually the whole franchise is replacing to these ovens. Personally, I would rather the Licolhn Impringer due to production per hour but my kitchen line has limited space and i have to go with a triple stack 18 incher setup. Feedback would be great, as I’m thinking of buying these ovens new.

I used a slightly older model, on my pizza cart…not designed for a full flown pizza operation!!! great for subs/slices etc. but not a $40k/mo biz

I think the new impinger air flow models handle the same volume as any of the Licohn or Middleby 18" wide conveyors… i could be wrong?

Hi resort pizza:

Holman was bought out by Star manufacturing and now Middleby has bought out Star.

Middleby will probably discontinue any products duplicated by their oven co. Much as they have done to Blodgett.

Holman never developed much of a reputation as a pizza oven manufacturer. If you can handle a 70 inch long by 46 deep oven I suggest you check out the XLT 1832-TS

George Mills

many thanks for the info. were not going that route anymore. looks like we are starting with a leased middleby marshall ps220fs double stack with 20" wide belts to start. As the year goes on and by December we will know our full production requirments and upgrade as needed. We just don’t have the space on our line for a 32" wide belt oven. i’m assuming we will have to go with a triple stack for December. I’m in a busy ski town in Canada and the winter is busy and the rest of the year is good to poor depending on the month.

i’m trying to find some production stats for this oven but i can’t and i’m assuming each stack can output about 17 to 20 14’ zas /hour. Anyone care to give me some real stats form direct experience?

Were opening in 4 weeks with a soft opening and i’ll post pics, menu etc when ready. Were called Panoli’s Pizzeria & Restuarante foccusssing on Italian and Pizza (Pan square pizza and Honey Wheat thin crust). 38 seats with a nice bar, full on delivery and take-out with a call center built in, can’t wait. Launching a full websiute as well with online ordering.

resort pizza asks

Im trying to find some production stats for this oven but i can’t and i’m assuming each stack can output about 17 to 20 14’ zas /hour. Anyone care to give me some real stats form direct experience?

Reply
Maximum production those ovens, 14" pizzas at 6 minute bake time = 40 per hour.
That is maximum utilization of conveyor space no space at all between pizzas.

George Mills

nice… for some reason i thought less from other stats i’ve seen. Went with a Middleby 20" wide belt so i’m assuming the production would be the same?

I recommend PESI’s Pro Series. I saw them at the NAPICS show and cooked on them. Cook time was about 4:30 minutes. The Pro Series PS1828’s were competing with the Lincoln 1116’s. Competition had their choice to use the Lincoln or Pro Series Oven and the competitors were lining up to use the Pro Series. The response was that the Pro Series was cooking the same as a deck oven but without the “oven tending” requirements. The Lincoln ovens were slower and didn’t have the newest in gas technolgy or efficiency (modulating gas train).

Lincoln is a great product, their parts are expensive and they are constantly “out-dating” parts to be replaced with “newer” parts. It’s like keeping up with a book club.
BOFI has just come on to the scene, but some of their parts are available through Grainger and other parts are through them only. Scary if they go out of business.
Middleby can’t make up their mind who they are going to “buy-out” today. Blodgett was “consumed” by Middleby a few years ago and now they are going to 3x and 4x parts prices so that when they phase out the Blodgett Ovens you will need to purchase new Middleby’s. I’m sure the same is going to happen to Star/Holman.
PESI was smart with the PRO series. You can buy parts from them, Grainger, or use “cross-over” parts from Middleby and Lincoln. This way if a service man shows to fix the oven he will probably know how to fix the oven and have the parts on his truck.

I’ve seen Tom Lehmann cook with these Pro Series ovens at numerous shows; Orlando, Columbus, and New York. It might be of interest to email (TLEHMANN@aibonline.org) him to get his response.

I know their ovens are reasonally priced($5,500 USD for a PS1828 18" belt and 28" chamber) and they come with a 2 year warranty. They can be contacted at 704.629.0000.

BOFI has just come on to the scene

I would agree that “Bofi has just come on the scene” but where does that put the PESI ovens? The XLT’s have been marketed for much longer than the Pro Series. I have yet to find a place using the Pro Series, just a sporadic post here and there on the message boards about them. What parts for the Pro Series are available from Grainger that are not available from Grainger for an XLT? That’s the first I’ve heard this arguement.

BOFI/XLT’s are from the same originator of the current Lincoln X2’s. Lincoln bought this line from a nearly bankrupt company in Kansas. It was purchased due to the fact that Lincoln was not allowed to build any ovens larger than a 36" chamber. This came from a dispute with Middleby. The BOFI/XLT ovens were so poorly constructed that operators had them vibrating/bouncing across the floor(hollow blower drive shaft). These ovens to the day are still be pulled and crushed and the Chains still regret being “pushed” into them(Pizza Hut/Donato’s). Lincoln has redesigned them with a solid blower drive shaft(a little late).

BOFI/XLT re-surfaced and came with a redesigned oven on the inside. The order surge came from the success of George Mills placing an oven in front of Domino’s Pizza E&S and telling them that for every oven sold Domino’s E&S would receive an undisclosed amount($2,500 unofficial). Thus the reason for the manufacturer jump and Middleby being generally replaced in the Domino’s Pizza system.

PESI has been in the refurbishing business for over 22 years. A few years ago and 1000’s of ovens later they decided to give the customer what they wanted and desired. Ever been to a car lot and wonder why this manufacturer did not offer a cup holder here like the another manufacturer did? And then looked at another make and model and wondered why they didn’t do this like another manufacturer(strong door panel, etc.). On the other side of the coin, when customers purchase these ovens, they are hesitant to tell others, since it will give them the same advantage they just benefited from; i.e. reduced costs, quality bake, speed, etc.

When it comes to parts in their ovens, PESI CERTIFIED their ovens with PESI, Grainger, Middleby Marshall, Lincoln and Blodgett parts. BOFI only CERTIFIED their ovens with BOFI/XLT & Grainger parts. Listed below is the individual part and then the Manufacturer - Source(s):

Signal Conditioner:
Pro Series - PESI, Middleby Marshall
XLT - XLT

Cooling Fan:
Pro Series - PESI, Grainger, Middleby Marshall, Lincoln, Blodgett
XLT - XLT, Grainger

Modulating Gas Valve:
Pro Series - PESI, Middleby Marshall
XLT - XLT

Transformer:
Pro Series - PESI, Grainger, Middleby Marshall, Lincoln, Blodgett
XLT - XLT, Grainger

Pick-Up Assembly:
Pro Series - PESI, Grainger, Blodgett
XLT - XLT, Grainger

Temperature Controller:
Pro Series - PESI, Middleby Marshall
XLT - XLT

Cool Down Timer:
Pro Series - (Built into Temperature Controller)
XLT - XLT

High Limit Board (Additional Safety):
Pro Series - PESI, Middleby Marshall, Blodgett
XLT - Not Offered

Ignition Control:
Pro Series - PESI, Grainger, Lincoln
XLT - XLT, Grainger

Conveyor Controller:
Pro Series - PESI, Grainger, Blodgett
XLT - XLT, Grainger

Combustion Blower Motor:
Pro Series - PESI, Middleby Marshall, Lincoln, Blodgett
XLT - XLT

Conveyor Drive Motor:
Pro Series - PESI, Grainger, Blodgett
XLT - XLT, Grainger

Combination Gas Valve:
Pro Series - PESI, Grainger, Middleby Marshall, Lincoln, Blodgett
XLT - XLT, Grainger

Thermocouple:
Pro Series - PESI, Middleby Marshall
XLT - XLT

Fan Motor:
Pro Series - PESI, Lincoln
XLT - XLT

Ignition Assembly:
Pro Series - PESI, Grainger, Lincoln
XLT - XLT, Grainger

Just one of their many clients is American Pie Pizza based out of Florida with numerous locations has gone exclusively with the Pro Series from being a Middleby Marshall customer. There is a Pro Series in Williston, FL that is just 22 miles from you, they went from a deck oven to the Pro Series.

American Pie may use PESI ovens in their new stores, but the majority of them use used MM’s

So Pizzaguy99, you start your first post on this board with a statement of

I recommend PESI’s Pro Series. I saw them at the NAPICS show and cooked on them
leading us to believe you are just someone giving us your unbiased recommendation. Your very thorough knowledge of each and every part of a Pro Series oven tends to make me believe that you created an identity on this board to do nothing but spam us with ads about PESI ovens. Am I wrong in believing this?

As far as the E-flow oven that you refer to I was a very satisfied user of one purchased new in 1997(it never vibrated or bounced across the floor). I used it till 2005 when I moved to a triplestack of Middleby 570’s. I regretted every moment of the switch, as the Middlebys sucked, and now operate with an XLT under a Lincoln X-2.

As far as a place in Williston using a Pro Series I’ll have to take your word for it. The only American Pie in this area I can find via google is in Archer, but thats not too far from Williston.

I guess, as you say,

On the other side of the coin, when customers purchase these ovens, they are hesitant to tell others, since it will give them the same advantage they just benefited from; i.e. reduced costs, quality bake, speed, etc.
the reason noone admits to being an owner of a Pro Series oven is they are looking to keep their “competitive advantage” over the rest of us think tankers. As far as “Certified parts”, I’ll look to see if these parts are only specifically offered through XLT.

Basically, I’m partly giving you a hard time because I’m not very fond of your comapany, but mostly because you offer nothing to this board but your selling of your product. Take some time to answer some of the equipment questions here without pushing your product and maybe you’ll gain some respect here.

Paul,
Good to hear from you. I hope you and your brother; John, are doing fine. I am sorry to hear that you are so upset with me. I have done nothing but help you in the past years.
When you purchased those PS570’s online from someone else I advised you NOT to buy them since they were “LAB” ovens. Of course they were bad, these were prototypes(mistakes looking to be corrected in future production runs). When you were ready to “unload” them I even gave you a local source to help you.

If you have a personal vendetta against me, contact me personally; keep it off here.

My reason for being on the forum here is just for opinion, aid and insight. I will not push someone into something that isn’t clearly justified and substantiated. I think the Pro Series is a great oven line, challenge me, prove me wrong. How many other manufacturers allow such an open communication to the end-user for feedback for design and/or performance adjustments? You think you can contact Selim and he would be responsive or even proactive?

I offer to the Forum:

• Very diversified background in pizza operations and equipment(22 years).
• Supervision over the production of thousands of ovens; new and refurbished.
• Presentation of training classes worldwide & year round on oven system logic and mechanical principles.
• Supervision of worldwide distribution of equipment and parts.
• Numerous patents on oven technology, including patents on other manufacturer’s equipment to solve their short-comings.

I want to give as much aid to the pizza industry as possible since pizza has been quite good to me.

The next time I come across some XLT X2’s you or anyone can have them for no charge; AS-IS(Come get them off the scrap pile). These are ovens on the same caliber as the Pizza Pride Electric ovens, with the price of metal/stainless as low as it is, scrapping isn’t even worth the time. Anyone interested in the ovens or training classes (Ovens/ Mixers/Sheeters) reply through this post.

yes, you offer a very diverse background, but don’t hide it by saying you “saw these ovens at Napics…”. Be up front about who you are, and be willing to help the think tankers with questions that go beyond selling them your ovens, and many more of us will be willing to listen to your message about your ovens. No reason to pretend to be someone who just ran across these ovens unless you are just here to spam us with your “ads”.

Paul,

Point taken.

I’m not here to sell ovens or any other equipment. I just want to add insight to the equipment market. Many can’t afford new or are comfortable with older models that are no longer in production. This is where the insight comes into play to advise a customer; i.e. when repairing a MM JS250, it is not the end of world that they can’t find an ignition module; they can in fact upgrade to the MM PS360 ignition standards. Thus saving them thousands of dollars and hours of aggravation.

Keep in mind if an opportunity does arise for a new oven sale, I will place the facts in front of the inquirer. But the ultimate choice is of course, their own, as you know. I don’t have traveling salesmen that show up on your door, if someone shows interest. This is an incredible business!!

Interesting Article: http://www.pizzamarketplace.com/article … =4627&na=1

I agree with Paul. I think that pretending to be a consumer when you are the manufacturer was a very bad decision. No one would have held it against you if you had plainly stated your position up front. As long as the information is verifiable and logical, no one minds someone outlining their products. It just has to be in a non-sales, technical manner.

I am ready to forgive in the hopes that you will share your experience here without advertisement. It sounds like you have pretty extensive knowledge of the industry.

Statement by pizza guy:BOFI/XLT’s are from the same originator of the current Lincoln X2’s. Lincoln bought this line from a nearly bankrupt company in Kansas.

Comment by GM:BOFI / XLT did not exist when the rights to make the E-flow oven were sold by Wolf Electric to an engineering firm in Kansas. I do believe the Wolf company recognized that the E-flow was in need of much further engineering and modifications in order to be a competitive oven. The firm that purchased the design obviously felt they could overcome the problems of the E-Flow. Unfortunately they could not, and subsequently sold the design to Lincoln. Lincoln apparently thought they could design the faults out of the E-Flow.

Quote:The BOFI/XLT ovens were so poorly constructed.

GM Note: the ovens that had the problems described were not made by BOFI / XLT They were made by the company that purchased the basic design from Wolf Electric with intentions of improving the product.

GM It is so that :operators had those vibrating/bouncing across the floor(hollow blower drive shaft). These ovens to the day are still be pulled and crushed and the Chains still regret being “pushed” into them(Pizza Hut/Donato’s). Lincoln has redesigned them with a solid blower drive shaft(a little late).

GM Note:The short comings of the ovens mentioned above was not the fault of Wolf Electric nor BOFI nor XLT.

Quote BOFI/XLT re-surfaced and came with a redesigned oven on the inside.

GM-Note BOFI was not in existence when Wolf Electric came out with a completely new design based on the air impingement principle used by Middleby and Lincoln.

The name BOFI was Instituted some time later.

Quote The order surge came from the success of George Mills placing an oven in front of Domino’s Pizza E&S and telling them that for every oven sold Domino’s E&S would receive an undisclosed amount($2,500 unofficial). Thus the reason for the manufacturer jump and Middleby being generally replaced in the Domino’s Pizza system.

GM- Note. Dominos operates their own Equipment and Supply company, they purchase XLT ovens just as any dealer would and to what extent they mark them up and take a profit I do not know. There was no undisclosed amount that Dominos was to receive. In fact I had nothing to do with the pricing negotiations.

Price was not the determining factor in Domino’s switching to XLT. It took about 2 years of testing and trying before Domino’s decided to switch. I doubt that Domino’s makes any more or any less on XLT ovens than they did on the Middlebys.

George Mills

George,

Thanks for clearing up any discrepencies.

Is it true that Domino’s Pizza has “First Right of Refusal” if the BOFI/XLT ever goes up for sale?

pizza guy asks: Is it true that Domino’s Pizza has “First Right of Refusal” if the BOFI/XLT ever goes up for sale?

I have never heard of that. But I am not privy to the inner councils of the company.I doubt if Domino’s would be interested. They have not made an effort to purchase any of their suppliers that I know of

George Mills

Pizza guy states: The next time I come across some XLT X2’s >

GM-There are no XLT X2 ovens. That oven is made by Lincoln

George Mills