What Electric 1-phase Conveyor Pizza Oven should I get?

Hi all,
My original plan was to get a double-stack, Middleby PS360, gas… well the landlord wont let me put a vented hood in, so I look to a ventless hood… then was told that ventless hoods are only for electric ovens. WTH!

SO, now I need to get an electric oven, and I see the majority of them are 3-phase… I need 1-phase.

What ovens do you guys suggust to get? I’m looking to get a double-stack, 1-phase setup.

Thanks all for the help!!!

Hi Integraoligist:

You will,I think, have a problem finding a used single phase oven. And if you do it will be expensive to operate and will not perform as good as a gas oven.

A ventless hood will operate well enough to meet the code for removing cooking vapors but wil not remove any of the heat generated. you will need a much larger air conditioningsystem to cool your shop. More cost.

You would be better to find another location.

George Mills

I have heat ventilation, thats not an issue… I was looking at the Lincoln spec sheet and they have the 1131 and 1130 at 1-phase, pulling 42-48amps… while the 3-phase pulls 28amp… what is the cost diffrence from the electric company?

I already talked to my electrician and he said it would be around $8k to do 3-phase. Damn!

Plus per our code, we do not require a hood if the oven is electric.

Plus per our code, we do not require a hood if the oven is electric.

The national code states that any devise that raises the temperature of a food ptoduct to 220 degres be it gas electric or other requires a hood. The main objective of a hood is to remove grease laden vapors. If vapors are not removed your entire facility can have a greasey feeling to it and an objectionable oder.

I have heat ventilation, thats not an issue…

If you are removing heat you are most probably removing air. The code calls for all air removed from a building be replaces at not more than 10 degrees below 70 degrees.

George Mills

I would not let my location determine the equipment… that is backwards!

Plus per our code, we do not require a hood if the oven is electric.

George, municipalities are not required to adopt the National Building Code, nor required to follow it. In my city, I do not need a hood for my deck pizza oven. It is vented via direct flue through the roof. We do have an exhaust fan and make up air to remove the heat, smoke/odors and provide cooling in the summer, but there is no hood.

Chicago, for example, has not adopted any model code… they use a proprietary code.

Even municipalities that have adopted a model code may not be using the most current one because they have to review it and adopt it into law, which takes time. They may also make many changes and adaptations to it. They may adopt the national code, but omit the part about needing a hood over a device that heats to 220 degrees.

This isn’t a case where Federal trumps state, which trumps local, etc. The National Building Code is not a federal law, so it’s up to Integraologist’s local jurisdiction. If they tell him he doesn’t need a hood, he doesn’t need a hood.

ADA, on the other hand, IS a federal law and local jurisdictions may not make laws that are less restrictive.

If you are removing heat you are most probably removing air. The code calls for all air removed from a building be replaces at not more than 10 degrees below 70 degrees.

Again, not necessarily. The national code may call for that, buy my make-up air is not tempered, and was approved by my city’s building department. Do I wish it was tempered? Yes, but it wasn’t required.

We have don thousands of pizza shops nation wide and not incountered any not following the BOCA code. Or perhaps the were not following it but accepted our plans as they obviously are an improvement over their code.

George Mills

Thanks Piper for the explanation… and yes I am in the Chicago vicinity.

So I’m trying to find out the cost differences between ovens via:
MM ps360 which burns: 220v, 1ph, 10A and uses 135,000 btu/hr
Factoring 60 pizzas per hour (from MM customer support)
vs.
Lincoln 1130 which burns: 120/220v 1ph, 48A and no gas
Factoring 25 pizzas per hour (from Lincoln spec. sheet )
vs
Lincoln 1132 which burns: 220v 3p, 28A and no gas
Factoring 25 pizzas per hour (from Lincoln spec. sheet )

How does the cost work with the specs?

The national code may call for that, buy my make-up air is not tempered, and was approved by my city’s building department. Do I wish it was tempered? Yes, but it wasn’t required.

my make-up air is not tempered, and was approved by my city’s building department.

If you are not tempering your make up air you are dumping cold air into your shop in the cooler months and hot rooftop air in to your shop in the summer.
George Mills

If you’ve ever done a pizza shop in Chicago, and I’m guessing you have, then you have encountered a jurisdiction that hasn’t adopted BOCA. New York City only adopted in 2008. And adoption doesn’t mean a jurisdiction didn’t make minor or major amendments.

I don’t have a dog in this fight, but my point is it’s not possible to tell Integraologist that his solution won’t work because of the National Building Code. That broad stroke is not good advice when the actual authority is his local jurisdiction.

Or perhaps the were not following it but accepted our plans as they obviously are an improvement over their code.

Of course. The local building department is not going to reject the plans for going above and beyond the code. If you want to put a Type I hood over your dry storage area, the building department isn’t going to reject it.

You probably can’t go wrong following the National Building Code, but it could be a lot of unneeded expense.

If you are not tempering your make up air you are dumping cold air into your shop in the cooler months and hot rooftop air in to your shop in the summer.

In the summer, my make-up air is cooled by evaporative cooler (swamper). I’m in the desert, so it works great. In the winter, yes, we dump cold air into the kitchen. The furnace, self-contained walk-in and kitchen equipment more than make up for it and it remains quite comfortable. Regardless of that, however, it was not required by my jurisdiction to temper it.

I don’t mean any disrespect, George, but it’s not right to advise this gentleman that he needs thousands of dollars of extra equipment due to a code that may not even apply to him. I think the best advice is “call your building department”, which it seems he has already done.

[SIZE=14px]We have done several shops in the Chicago suburbs this year. Our designs followed by local architects were always accepted.

If a local jurisdiction selects to ignore the BOCA code they are not, in my opinion, doing their jurisdiction a favor. They are, in my opinion rejecting the reconditions of the best minds in the industry as to what is best.

I have been in this food service supply industry since 1953. I can remember the miserable conditions of many, if not most ,of the food service facilities in this nation at that time.

the improvements in health and building regulations have been enormous, to the benefit of the consumer and the operators.

We always design to the utmost standards of the industry. We almost never have a client who’s venture is a failure.

The codes are not written just for the fun of it. They reflect the opinions of a great number of experts with more knowledge than I.

George Mills[/SIZE]

Hi Piper

“In the summer, my make-up air is cooled by evaporative cooler (swampier)”

We never use evaporative coolers due to the possability of Legionnaires disease.
Legionella exist naturally in water and moist soil. water in air conditioning cooling towers and evaporative condensers,

Please note: following comments based on less than complete information: I may be drawing conclusions from comments above that are incorrect.

It is not clear from the posts (OP) whether you are fully committed to this location. Since you are planning a build-out, I am thinking that maybe not yet?

Your original plan to use gas ovens is really the right way to go. If the land lord will not allow the upgrades to make this possible you really should consider waiting until you find a location that is mechanically appropriate for the business you want to operate.

Your lease (have you signed yet?) probably states that the LL must approve your improvements. If they will not approve the improvements that are needed to optimize your business you might see an attorney about getting out of the agreement. If you have not signed yet, I strongly suggest looking elsewhere. I well understand that it is difficult to pull up and change direction once you have made a decision, but the way you are headed will cost you a bunch of money and leave you with a less than optimal situation. It would be one thing if you were stepping into an existing build-out and equipment package with low costs, but since you are looking at spending good money, I think you should really consider trying to get what you really want in a different location.

Take a look at the TS series by Italforni. The new ELECTRIC stone conveyor ovens have high production capability so you may get away with a couple of smaller ovens. More details here: http://www.pizzaovens.com/New-Equipment/Electric-Conveyor-Ovens/ItalForni-TS-Electric-Stone-Conveyor-Oven_2.html

I do not see single phase offering the performance without costing you your arm, leg and maybe a left testi too.
If I remember correctly, 3-phase is metered at a different/lower rate through the electric providers.
The only bad issue that I have found with 3-phase, is when we lose a phase at the lines, it shuts us down completely because I need to pull my main breakers to not overload all the 3-phase motors running here (compressors, lift/grinding station, hood, etc) whereas if you are running on all single phase, a lost phase out on the transmission lines will most likely not even be noticed by you.

Talk to your LL as a business man. Let him know that you are just requesting what you need in order to facilitate your business. Tell him that you are actually upgrading the income potential of his unit, not only by the customers a pizzeria pulls in, but by the chance that you leave. It opens a array of potential tenants that he would not have had other wise.

This is your money and business. You will have to fight for what you need. This is what will separates successful business from the others. Dont let any one discourage you. Just take it one step at a time. If this location is key for you then do what you need to make it work.

I had a similar thing happen, where i was told that i could only have electric. Fortunately i didn’t give in and proved them wrong. Gas is the way to go. It’s allot more cost effective and in my opinion make the machines run better. So keep fighting to get what you need.