Dude, that’s playing rough!
I only “hint” at stuff like that 
…
I tend to point that that WE do this and that, or perhaps that we’re the ONLY place that does this and that, rather than specifically saying “their cheese comes in preshredded and frozen, and they’re not even ALLOWED to use real sausage or a decent pepperoni”. At least not in print.
Hot and ready (…sometimes you get what you pay for)
The Delivery Experts (…who know nothing about quality. Or pizza.)
The way I see it is that some people only have so many bucks they can spend or if they have a load of kids who need feeding for the lowest amount of cash.
The “only so many bucks” will buy cheap as this drives their thinking. You will find they will go for the cheapest on everything and forgo quality, i.e. buying generic / no-name groceries, Pizza Hut / Dominos etc. They wouldn’t even look at a $15 pizza when they can get one for $5.95, despite the $15 one having the best quality toppings, more toppings and larger bases. They wouldn’t know a good pizza if one fell out the sky and hit them on the head.
“Feeding for the lowest amount of cash” ones know that kids aren’t real fussy on taste and wouldn’t have taste buds developed enough to distinguish between good or poor taste. Why spend $15 when they can get the same result from $5.95?
We often get people phone to ask how much would 8 or 10 large pizzas cost. My standard reply normally starts with “what are you looking for and who are you catering to?” We also try and ascertain how much they are looking to spend. If they tell us that they want to spend about $50 - $60 we suggest that if they can go to then they should look to the “chew and spews”, BUT, if they really want to have bigger, fresher and tastier (our trademark) and can afford to pay more then order through us. If it is for a buch of younger kids then most of the time we tell them we do the best pizzas but we couldn’t do the quantity you want for the price and suggest they go to the cheapies.
We find that most people will not admit that they can’t afford more and generally go with us. If they do we do a good price and often don’t charge for delivery (yes we do charge for delivery - between $5 - $7.50 depending on the area) or throw in a couple of free garlic breads.
But in the end of the day there are two markets that will probably never be transgressed. The “chew and spew” diehards will always go to Pizza Hut / Dominos and the people who prefer taste over dollars will stay with the good qaulity indpendents. Like the old saying ‘East is East and West is West and never the trains shall meet’.
We don’t market against the cheapies but love the amount of advertising they do as they not only advertsise their own brand but pizzas in general. Each time they have a advertising blitz our sales have an increase.
Lousy, tasteless pizzas will always have a mass market, backed by massive advertising and cheap price just as much as the the quality ones will have their own market but with lesser unit sales but better profits.
during my research and experience while i wait to open over and over i ask people why do you buy pizza hut,dom,and in jersey the worst and this is the answer i get all the time chucky cheese has the worst pizza i ever ate but my kids love the games even the kids dont like te pizza but they know if they eat the play. advertising is huge take away the big threes advertising and they become an independent. also when do you go to your favorite restuarant when you plan,make reservations ect. so how much time do you have to eat the best food in town. if your in a hurry your not goingto care if its the best.i think they eat at these places because they are everywhere you see and hear them every day tv,radio.even if you forget food lets do coffee dunkin donuts,starbucks, big price but all around and fast but by no means is it the best coffee, so why not drive to your fav.,best coffee house ever because its not every 1/4 mile andnot on tv radio 24hrs aday and we just don’t have the time.
you have to make the best food you can and have a great location and you should do well but you will never be able to make bad food in a bad location and not have a million dollar ad budget with your bad food every state and town .one last thought whenever there is a drive thru get out of my car drive thru!
Another thought.
I’ll confess, my favorite pizza is not my own.
My favorite pizza is a Chicago landmark. Even if I lived in Chicago, I would not eat it every time I want Pizza. Why?
Because 1, it is expensive. 2, it is more than I need. 3, too much of a good thing makes it ordinary or even bad.
I keep trying to hammer it home. The chains don’t have lousy pizza. It’s not gourmet, but it’s not lousy either.
What you need to decide is what is your niche? If your pizza is “high quality” is your place high quality? Does the atmosphere of your shop and your advertising project the image you want people to have of your pizza? If you have white walls, a counter, ovens and a couple of plastic booths, your image is “cheap” even if your pizza isn’t. If you have carpeting, dark wood, clean, and candles on every table, your image is cozy.
Think of it this way. When you walk into a Domino’s, it looks like an efficient pizza factory, and that’s what it is. They crank out thousands of pizzas, and don’t worry too much about atmosphere. If you changed your sign, could people mistake your store for a Domino’s or a Hut, or a PJ’s??? If what they SEE is no different, how do you expect them to make the leap that your pizza is different or worth more?
So maybe your place is different. Perhaps it has the atmosphere, and you command the higher price. Do you expect people to shell out higher $$$ every Friday? Then you are living in a fantasy world. If your pizza is a treat, then people are going to use you less frequently. Ruth’s Chris has great steaks, possibly the best. I eat there once every 2 years. Lone Star has good steaks. I eat there 4 or 5 times a YEAR. another place has O.K. steaks. I eat there every couple WEEKS! Price, location, service, appropriate dress, time, all factor in. One is food, another is a treat, the third is an EVENT.
Decide you niche, and go for it. Stop worrying about the chains unless that is your market. If it is, then prepare to dig in and fight on their turf.
You can also ask yourself why Toyota has both “regular” Toyota cars and “Lexus”. Or why Nissan has Infinity - or why Honda has Acura.
Why does anyone buy a Chevy when there is Ferrari?
These questions don’t make much sense to ask - much less answer. There are markets for both - but one market is much much smaller. If you are trying to be the Ferrari of pizza don’t expect your market to be as big as the Chevy pizza - and certainly don’t ask why anyone buys the Chevy instead of your Ferrari.
The one thing about the pizza business now is that there is too many competition… every town you go there is at least 7 or 8 pizza shops including your typical chain pizzeria… every pizza is different, some people think papa gino’s has the best pizza, some people think their pizza is the worst. It is not like the old days where you only had maybe 2 local pizzerias and you didnt have too many choices even if the pizza wasnt good, in your eyes that was the best pizza becuase that’s the only one you ate. Also how can you beat a big chain saling 3 medium pizzas for 15 dollars?? when your local mom and pops pizzeria cant even go near that price. If you have 7 landscapers, would you buy 3 for 15 or go pay 8 for 1???
My 2 cents worth:
Evidently, there is more to eating pizza than just the pizza.
It is a very subjective thing; consider this, no mother has an ugly baby.
with that in mine, if you really probe people as to why they buy “lousy pizza” you may find that it is not the pizza.
“it’s on my way home, cheaper, for girls, the pizzeola is cute, for guys, they remember my name, only place with artichokes, open late, etc.”
like a mother’s baby, people take “ownership” in where they buy pizza, and they will defend it like a mother
we may make good pizza for our peers in the pizza business and market to the customers.
that whole perception of why people buy is a much bigger thing than just the pizza, … as much as I wish, too, that it was just the pizza.
Otis
In my business I have seen many pizzerias…
It seems the cheap pizza places have clean bright premises…Signs, lights, uniforms etc., etc…The more expensive independents premises do not jump out at you…This is a generalization and may not apply to all…
So perhaps a makeover is required…If you can not afford an expensive lighted sign get a couple bright new digital printed banners…If you can not afford full colour menus at least get a professional printed 2 colour one…If you can not afford uniforms buy some bright colour tees from a local bargain store…I am not talking about spending a fortune…Just brightening up a little…
A small investment in your image will have a huge return on investment…
…RCS…
I have really enjoyed reading all of your posts. I see three things in these posts that repeat them selfs over and over again. Price, location, and taste in that order. The reason I say to discount the locations is that each shop is in a good location except for one, and that is a PH delivery/pick-up that is on a side street with no retail around it. (there are two PH’s delivery shops in this town and a third standard one). I dont feel that in this instance that price is a factor. Location really is not a factor. So the only one left is personal taste.
I guess that if someone should ever as me what they should serve in a pizza place, I will tell them that they should find the cheepest cheese, meat and sauce they can find and charge the highest price they can get for it. Make there store flashy, bright, cheerful, great service, always a smile, take veryone’s coupons, open in late afternoon, anc close later than the other guy. Oh, I forgot, have three sizes, small, medium and large. Dont even mention inches, because the “big guys” never mention inches, so that people cant compare size for size.
Just some thoughts. Thanks again!
Just to add theres also the issue of what people are used to if there are 3 PHs in your town then that becomes the norm for pizza in your area (good or bad) One of my drivers once told me that his favorite pizza came from a particular pizza chain (even though they make probably the worst pizza ever ) reason was thats were he`d first worked so that was his first experience of pizza
rico
the only problem with what you said is you also need a thousand stores nationwide and unlimited marketing.
if we had our stores in each state with the same name we would be able to do the same thing .when people are on vacation were not in other states they are safe bet eating there oh yeah they saw a commercial before they left fake cheese soy sauage 5.99 gotta have that
to bad all the independents nationwide cant form an advertising union and we all get a share of the pool for advertising in your state.
the key is alot of stores, same name ,spread across the world share advertising when pizza hut is on tv it is for all not just one store and you only have to run one ad name always the same
Ever thought of getting a co-operative type group going under a catchy name where you can pool resources to create a group type iamge.
The’re some variables that would need considering such as standard menu, same ingredienets, price points, trading name etc.
It could be done but then again you would lose some of the appeal of an independent.
None the less it is a way to combat the chains and also open a new level of competition in the pizza market based on quality and a higher price. Done right it can be done.
Although I have only been in the industry for less than a year I have plans to establish a franchise along the quality and higher price market by selecting outlets in areas where the socio-economics match the marketing of the proposed franchise.
We go head to head with the chains and have a great turnover, strong and loyal customer base and attract new customers constantly. We are not cheap (average $15 against $5.95) but we never let quality or service slip. Our store has been transformed from a very tired and drab decor to one that is welcoming but trendy.
We insist on nothing but the best service, the best pizzas made with the best quality ingredients, all done by staff that want to work for us because they like working for us and what we stand for. We have invested heavily in uniforms to match our store format and have launched a new trading name that says what we are about.
Our marketing of the business has taken on some ideas that are new to the industry in Australia (some ideas borrowed from what Walmart do in the US) which we believe can be replecated into new stores in areas we want to target.
I don’t want to take on the chains by doing the price point / volume trade they do as financials aren’t there to do it, but by giving the pizza buyers a qaulity alternative across a broad area in “like” stores then I feel we can make our niche in the market in Perth, Western Australia.
If you can get a co-operative going that is run by “like” people with “like” ideas and ideals who see a common goal, are willing to sacrifice some ego and “independence” then you can match the advertising and promotion of the chains without having to sell “lousy pizzas”.
Dave
My pizza is not the best in town, and I have news for the rest of you, NEITHER IS YOURS! There is only ONE best pizza in town and the odds of all those poeple being here is slim and none; and none is way in the lead.
Look if I had to do it over again, I would get the cheapest stuff possible, call myself “Cheap Pizza” and sell the lowest rpice point around. Sam Walton was NOT a stupid man. What I just stated is the Wal-Mart theory. Have the lowest price and sell cheap stuff. Ever see an empty WalMart parking lot?
Why does bad pizza sell? BECAUSE IT IS CHEAP! Lets quit with the complaining that we can’t make money at $5 a pie. What does a 14" or a Large dough cost you? About 20 ounces or so of dough at about a penny an ounce, so thats 20 cents. What does the sauce cost you? Maybe 10 cents. How about cheese. At $1.50 a pound and the avg large having about 9 ounces of cheese that is a little over 84cents, lets call it 85 cents. OK Now pepperoni. if you get 15/oz and put 30 on a pie thats 2 oz and at about $2 a lb that is about 25 cents. Packaging probably another 30 cents lests say. Now add it up
.20 dough
.10 sauce
.85 cheese
.25 pepperoni
[u].30[/u] packaging
1.70 total cost of a 14"(large) pepperoni pizza
If you sell it at $5 that is a food cost of 34% if I could triple my sales and have a FC of 34% I would do it in a heartbeat.
And that is with the products I currently use including 100% whole milk mozzarella and Margharita Pepperoni, along with sauce from Bonta. All are typically considered to be quality stuff. Imagine if I cheaped out! Pizza is pizza is the thing I hear most often from MOST custoemrs when they tell me they had some of the other guys pie at an event and I ask them how it was. Even when it’s bad it’s good, is pretty common to hear from folks. I think a stores reputaiton and customer service are more important than the quality of the product. I think a consistent product is more important than a good product. It may suck but if folks know it will be the same time after time they most times will go for it. That explains the White Castle and Big Mac. They are cheap and quick and consistent. We keep trying to reinvent the wheel. Lets look at what the success stories did and repeat it. If it is not a success, then why do it?
Cheap Pizza, we have the cheapest pizza in town and we’ll have it “ready to go out the do’” in 5 minutes or less would be my motto and I would just keep pumping them onto the conveyor. I bet it would work!
so, go ahead and do it. If you have it all figured out, go for it and report back in 6 months.
amen brother i like your style is this what you do? i am considering changing my format to this ideal
I can’t do it. I’m broke.
Trying it the other way, the normal way, the We have the best pizza and best ingredients in town way, the follow the Franchise recipe way, the way it has been done for over a decade at my store that I just bought last year way, has buried me. With a little luck I will have the store sold in the next week or two. I will have lost in the neighborhood of $40,000 trying to be the Lexus of pizzas as our franchise demands. The franchise made money, the landlord made money, the supplier made money, I just didn’t. I have learned a lot which I will use in the future whatever that may be. For now I just need to find a job.
But if I had a few bucks what I stated before is EXACTLY what I would do!
When I was in school a teacher I knew had 2 pizza places…His was called Econo Pizza and had the cheapest pizza in town…His wife owned Le Pizza and had very pricey pizza…The sauce, cheese, toppings, crust, etc. were the same at both places…But Econo Pizza skimped on amounts and had his take out customers bring their own containers…He did not do delivery…Le Pizza had custom printed boxes and did deliveries…They both made money for many years…Go figure…RCS…
anonymity breeds truth, where are you located at?
I would like to speak with you in more detail if you dont mind. I belive you may already have my email, but just in case you dont here it is again…
thanks for your time.
Some of your post seem to be resounding some info i exchanged with a friend of mine on the phone about a year ago. Sorry to hear you lost so much money on that deal.
if you want to, you can call me instead. 951-488-2879. i dont check my email that often.
Wal-Mart and Target both sell Crest toothpaste. Wal-Mart sells it for about 20 cents a tube less. Wal-Mart sells about double what Target sells.
Think about it. Same quality, just more volume.
It aint brain surgery.
We just had a store in our chain open in another state with no recognition and do about 13k in the 1st week with 75% carry-out at $4.99 for a large pepperoni.
Oh ya - we do use many of the higher quality ingredients too.
The difference is that Wal-Mart screw the suppliers down to rock bottom prices because no-one wants to be left off the shelf at Wal-Mart, even the giants like Proctor & Gamble.
Hence WM sell cheaper but still get the same $ return per unit but at a better GP%. They sell cheaper thanks to “negotiating harder” with suppliers, then sell more volume but make bigger profits.
The same would be with the chains with their buying power for ingredients vs Independents.
Volume and cheap prices only work if you can get the same $ return from buying better.