Ascorbic Acid and how much?

[apostle]

Hello,
I wanted to know if many people use ascorbic acid in their dough formula and how much to use? Benefits of using this oxidizer by experience? After doing some research I could not find anybody talking about quantities to use.
Thank You

 

[Tom_Lehmann]

In order to achieve the desired oxidizing/strengthening effects of the ascorbic acid it must be an encapsulated ascorbic acid made specifically for use in doughs. You can purchase it from any major bakery ingredient supplier. The normal use level is typically between 120 and 240-ppm (parts per million (of flour). It is available in both powder and tablet form with the tablet form being easier to use. Some tablets provide 60-ppm ascorbic acid per 100-pounds of flour weight while others provide 240-ppm but these are scored into quarters so it is easy to divide into 60-ppm sections. The tablets MUST be suspended in water prior to addition to the dough with the best place to add it is into the dough water. If you are using 50-pounds of flour weight keep in mind that each tablet will provide twice the dosage of ascorbic acid to your dough based on 50-pounds of flour.
With all of that said, I can’t come up with a good reason to want to add ascorbic acid to a pizza dough unless you’re looking for a dough that will exhibit more memory when opening the dough balls into skins. Ditto for ADA (Azodicarbonamide) and K-Bromate (potassium bromate). I might also add that if you use an non-coated ascorbic acid it will entirely react during the mixing process showing no benefit or function what so ever.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

 

[apostle]

I have seen small mention of it here and there as a oxidizer but with no technical explanation. I also see that SAF yeast has some inside it but doesn’t mention how much and why in yeast.?Thank You Mr Lehmann

 

[Tom_Lehmann]

The reason why it is in IDY is to counteract the glutathione that is released into the dough from the damaged yeast cells as a result of the drying process. The glutathione acts just like L-cysteine in that it softens the dough during mixing and the fast acting ascorbic acid counteracts the softening at the same time in the mixing bowl.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

 

[apostle]

I was reading up on oxidizer substitute’s because we just can’t seem to get the exact characteristics that our bromated flour gave us no matter how we mix it. The overall browning when being cooked and the strength/body/crispiness the final crust retains after being cooked. The non bromated seems to create a weaker crust as shown on picture versus the bromated.

 

[Tom_Lehmann]

With the amount of bromate now used in flour I seriously doubt that you would see any benefit to using and kind of added oxidation, plus AA does not perform in the same way that KBRO3 does, even the encapsulated form is faster than bromate so it would be long gone by the time you actually were ready to use the dough. If you feel that strength is really the problem just begin experimenting with lower finished dough temps. A reduction of 5F in finished dough temp will sufficiently slow the rate of fermentation to provide greater finished dough strength. If you can share with us your dough management procedure it would help a lot in determining what action to take.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

 

[apostle]

I adjust water according to a chart for room and flour temp. Room temp does fluctuate over night.
I usually go 4F lower than chart because I have a higher friction around 40(chart based on 30).
In order: I add water, flour, sugar, salt, IDY(.45%) and mix
I add oil in delay roughly 2 minutes into it.
My finished dough has a temp of 82 to 85 roughly.
I scale it as soon as it comes out.
I put them it trays closely together about 24 in tray.
Move them to walk in and we always use them the next day. Rarely do they stay a 2nd day until used.
Next day I form skins in morning, proof to desired height and then store in cooler until used.

 

[Tom_Lehmann]

I didn’t see where you are cross-stacking and then down stacking a couple of hours later. This will just about automatically cut your effective cold ferment time to not more than 24-hours. Also you say that you are packing the dough balls tight in the box which means that you will need an even lower finished dough temperature.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

 

[apostle]

I don’t cross stack them because we use sheet pans and slide them in a sheet pan rack to cold ferment
We then leave the rack cover rolled up on one side over night.
Is this an acceptable alternative?
Should I aim for 78F for finished dough?
What temp does IDY become most active?

 

[Tom_Lehmann]

Your sheet pan and rack are fine, but you don’t mention oiling the dough balls to prevent drying. Also by leaving the rack cover open on one side you might be over cooling the dough and actually not getting sufficient fermentation.
The best finished dough temperature will depend upon how the dough is being managed. If it appears to be under fermented, tough to open and too much memory an increase in finished dough temperature is usually the best course of action to address the issue. If the dough is overly soft, sticky or doesn’t rise/collapses during baking a reduction in finished dough temperature would be the correct course of action. Your job then is to maintain a consistent finished dough temperature.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

 

[apostle]

I actually have reduced finished dough temp this week to 78F from 82-84.
It has given me day and night results on the strength of the non bromated dough after it is cooked.
Possibly because it was over fermenting over night?
Is their a reverse link between finished dough temp and amount of yeast used for fermentation?

 

[Tom_Lehmann]

There is correlation between dough temperature and yeast percentage but there is nothing hard and fast since it depends upon so many factors such as;
Type of pizza dough being made.
Dough formulation (salt and sugar) mostly.
Dough ball size/weight.
Dough ball count in the dough box.
Material from which the dough box is made.
Type and efficiency of the cooler.
These are the main influencing factors, I think it is just a lot easier to say that for every shop there is an ideal finished dough temperature and the trick is to find what it is, looks like you found it for YOUR shop.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor