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Franch Bread

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Nasso

New member
First of all I would like to thank everyone that has helped me here well I was in the process of purchasing my first pizza place (check my previous posts). May 1 I close on it and occupy the next day. So thank you all again and I hope that soon I can tell you all the info of the place so maybe some of you can help me a little more in depth.

Now about french bread… So here is the thing. My pizza place opens at 10:30 AM however my employees and I will be there at 5 AM to begin our wholesale cooking. We will fill orders and deliver about 40 pizzas every monday thru friday morning prior to even opening the front door (at a wholesale price of course). I noticed while I was doing my due diligence that there was alot of down time in between the 4 large orders that go out. I feel that this is great oppertunity for me to cut costs and one thing that is killing us is FRENCH BREAD prices!!! So I am thinking of getting some french bread baking sheets and cooking my own fresh bread daily. The place goes thru about 15 large rolls a day unless we get a catering order or other surprise. Right now the price per roll is $1.29, if I were to cook my own I could probably knock it down to .25 a roll.

So heres what I need to know:
  1. Is it possible to cook french bread in our pizza ovens. We have two Bakers Pride double deck ovens? I have read places that to keep the bread moist you should put a pan of water in the back of your oven and the steam will do the trick. Maybe I am biting off more than I can chew?
  2. Is this a good idea or am I just over pinching my pennies?
  3. Does anyone do this and if so do you have a good recipe and or equipment that you use?
Thanks for any advice you can give.
Nasso
 
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you can bake excellent bread in the oven you have…

your pizza dough is actually a “lean” bread dough…

we used the exact same dough and made sub rolls & sandwich buns…

for the buns, we used disposable/reusable 5" aluminum tins…sprayed they with pan release & but 4-5 oz dough, lightly pressed into the pan…we lightly sprayed the top w/olive oild blend & spices…it will take several hours to proof, as the yeast content is quite low…snip/cut the top, spritz w/H20 and bake @ 350 or so, for 12-18 minutes…

I’ve baked 'em in MM 360, a CTX and of course a convection oven…

you can form long french/italian loaves or sub size…

you can also crank up the yeast (2x) & H20 Temp, bulk proof (covered) punch down and scale, proof & bake…

you can also make cini rolls, bread stx etc…

the H20 in the oven is ok, but you can generously spritz the top & achieve the same effect…

if your dough is good, your rolls will be excellent…

I’ve seen some dough forms on ebay…

good luck!
 
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This is just my thoughts…

Years ago we were going to make our own bread, fooled around with it a bit and decided not to do it…THANK GOD

Fast forward a few years to now… We use 80 dozen sub rolls a week. Between Garlic Bread and subs. Could you imagine trying to cook all that bread? We opened location # 2 which uses an additional 60 dozen rolls a week.

The idea is to increase sales and if it comes by the way of subs then what? You will have to have a plan two which will probably mean ordering bread from someone and changing the sub that made your subs a success. (Make sense?)

Have you called local bakeries? We get our subs for 38 cents and the bread is uniform and fantastic. (We actually have people come and just buy the loaves)

Think longterm… I am a great dough maker not a bread maker.
 
I thought that 2, but what is pizza dough? Its bread…if you have the time & space, you can make an excellent product, just as superior as your pizza…

It might take some additional equipment if you have significant volume, but I managed to produce several items w/o any special equipment, just an understanding of current equipment constraints & the desire to produce a great product…

You can produce an excellent roll for less than a dime…yes, you can buy-out anything, but you already are making an excellent base to use…
 
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I have talked to few of the local bakeries but at less than 10 dozen a week I am still purchasing at close to retail price. Plus delivery charges I am almost paying more than what I am paying to just send a delivery guy to the local market and pick up rolls as needed. I don’t know to me it makes sense because because I have the labor there and I am not using so much bread that it is difficult to make. Also if we do get a surprise catering order I won’t have to freak out about sending a delivery guy from store to store searching for the bread we use at a low price. Lastly, when we get to the point that we are using ten dozen rolls a day as apposed to ten dozen a week, I will gladly bring in a person to just bake bread all morning. ESPECIALLY if it’s because people love our bread!

Nasso
 
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Baking bread is my passion… making pizzas is my career.

It is not that simple for you to say I’ll start making my own rolls. But is it really worth it to start? There is more to making bread than you may think, to make a consistent product. Do you have the experience in baking bread? Do you know when stage one fermemtation process is done and ready for punch down/fold? Do you know when the proofing stage is done and the rolls are ready for baking? Do you know when and how much steam to add to the oven to produce the correct oven spring? What is oven spring?
These are things that you will have to know because they WILL change how your finished product comes out of your oven.
Sorry for being the devils advocate, but I hope this helps you.

P.S. Pizza dough formula makes a substandard rolls
 
Hello Nasso,sorry I must ask why 5-1/2 hrs. earlier every day to make 40 pizzas for wholesale?This is taking entirely to long my friend.That kind of ‘down time’ could close your doors.Now my opinion to your Q about french bread.I think if your selling sandwiches that you take pride in you should find the baker you like and pay the price.Why?Well,for one CONSISTENCY for some reason customers love it.Two,like someone else said this will become a pain in da butt once you start to grow in which you will do so.It sounds real good making your own bread but when it starts to get busy this becomes such a headache.
Remenber these are ONLY my opinions.
Niccademo
 
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Re: French Bread

I beg 2 disagree the pizza dough makes 4 a poor product…you just need to use some “tricks”…

it will be a denser dough & will need a much longer proof time, if you use regular dough…

but you can make an excellent product w/a little experimentation, as you learn how to adapt your procedure to your equipment…

I was never able to find a decent product from local bakeries, so I started baking my own…

is it worth it? I’m happier w/the product quality and my customers have made many great comments…
 
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Re: French Bread

Last night we went out for dinner to our favourite pub…We were looking forward to some great burgers and great hockey…Failed on both accounts as my Canucks lost…But we were also dissappointed by the burgers…They were not the fresh baked buns we were expecting…I asked why and I was told the bakery they were using got expensive so they just started picking them up where ever…I expressed to the owner that I may start coming less frequently because of this and it did not even phase him…In a few months when his business is down he might get it…But it is real hard to re-gain his clients…The bottom line is that you have to serve a product that meets your customers expectations…If you fail at this, they will go elsewhere…RCS…
 
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I tend to agree on the consistency of doing your own bread. I was a bakery manager for 8 yrs and dough can be a fickle thing. There is a lot of things that affect the proofing and baking process. I have only had pizza shop about 1 yr in May but my business has picked up so much that I have hired 3 people and am staying open 24 hrs a day. If I was going to do my own breads I would use a frozen dough so I could get consistent product. A Riches italian dough runs about 41 cents per loaf and is an excellent crusty or soft, depends on the way you bake it, loaf or roll. Again, don’t forget the fact that pizza is in!! You will grow fast!!
BJ
 
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Nasso,
We started baking our own french bread, not because of money, but because of quality concerns. We have found that purchasing frozen bread dough is the ticket for us. You can also purchase par baked bread in some areas (I can’t get what I need here). The neatest piece of equipment I purchased for our bread baking is a simple sheet pan rack with a nice plastic cover. By adding a pot of boiled water to the bottom, I can reasonably replicate a proofer…made all the difference in the world to our bread. I make my own hoagies using Tom’s recipe from the recipe bank…have had excellent success…thanks to the homemade proofer!!
John
 
Re: French Bread

I’ve used a slow cooker, w/H20, set on high as well…

Rudi’s/Pillsbury has a great par-baked product & Wenner’s has some great dough products…
 
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nasso,

why are you getting in at 5:00 am? who is getting 40 pizzas that early?
how long does it take to make and bake them? i don’t even make 40 pizzas a night sometimes!

ps , we get our bread already baked.
 
Wow you guys have definitely given me a lot to think about here. To answer a few questions:
  1. I do not know much about baking bread, but am willing to learn.
  2. The 5 hours in the morning is all wholesale, it’s nearly a business in it’s self I wholesale to various catering companies in the area that do alot of work for O Hare airport.
  3. 40 pizza’s in 5 hours does seem like more time than needed but my orders have to be filled at 6:00 am, 7:30 am, 9:00 am and 10:00 am. there is no point to send my one cook home for half hour intervals. Right now he just cleans up and inventories in the down time. So why not make bread if possible.
I hope I am helping you guys because you guys are definitely helping me,
Nasso
 
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Re: French Bread

much of my experience/success has been thru “trial & error” based upon needs & equipment…

bread, like pizza dough, is better, IMHO, when it has some “age” on it…

I would try to make my bread like CiCi’s makes their CiniRolls & their garlic bread, but adapt it to your needs & equipment…

use 25# of flour…use 75-95 temp in H20 (adjust as needed)…increase the yeast 2x’s…bulk proof it until 2x’s in size…shape into rolls, loaves or make CiniRolls…proof again…spritz w/H20 and bake @ 325-375 8-15 min (depending on equipment)…
 
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