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Got any ideas how to test savings

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Hi,
I’m Peter and I am an inventor who creates magnetic conditioners for fuel and water. One of my latest inventions is the most powerful Natural Gas Conditioner[/URL] in the world. It uses rare earth magnets in a monopolar treatment design meaning it uses only one magnetic pole so there is no reduction of magnetic energy by the other pole. The system has been used successfully in the home and tested on large commercial applications. There is no doubt the power provides results.

After showing savings at 4 Domino’s locations, saving $100 the first month on a pizza oven at an Italian restaurant and the most boring, but real-time test on YouTube from an associate, my thought was to make it available to Pizza shop owners who like everyone else, needs to save money on fuel.

Well, I wasn’t surprised when our representative said everyone wanted a separate Pizza oven test.

This is where it gets sticky. I was told to go to the Food Service Technology Center because that was the industry standard. They turned me down saying it wasn’t something they were interested in. They sent me to the Gas Technology Institute who again turned me down. I was willing to pay them for their normal services, but they were not interested. Then I found out why:

They said they turned me down because an EPA auto engine aftermarket test report didn’t show much savings. I know it takes a little time for the fuel system to stabilize before it delivers savings, but so far I haven’t found one oven that has anything to do with auto engine economy.

Any suggestions. So far the system has shown good results. Depending upon use, it normally takes about 3-4 weeks for the Natural Gas Super Saver to fully saturate all the steel parts (line, burner, etc.), but once its done, the system seems to provide the results. Any ideas on testing? Peter
 
Pseudoscience at best. Best to take the FSTC and Gas Tech Institute’s nod and move on.
 
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pizza99 said:
Pseudoscience at best. Best to take the FSTC and Gas Tech Institute’s nod and move on.
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Well, it is a bit beyond pseudoscience. It is based on using enough electromotive force produced by these powerful magnetic fields to re-orient the atomic structure from normal para-hydrogen to the more volatile ortho-hydrogen which increases combustion efficiency and puts out more BTU. Originally patented by Simon Ruskin (3,228,868), it was developed by NASA to enable their hydrogen fueled rockets to go further. Although it is rocket science, it is a simple application which requires the correct amount of electromotive saturation through the gas to make it work.
 
Peter said:
Well, it is a bit beyond pseudoscience. It is based on using enough electromotive force produced by these powerful magnetic fields to re-orient the atomic structure from normal para-hydrogen to the more volatile ortho-hydrogen which increases combustion efficiency and puts out more BTU. Originally patented by Simon Ruskin (3,228,868), it was developed by NASA to enable their hydrogen fueled rockets to go further. Although it is rocket science, it is a simple application which requires the correct amount of electromotive saturation through the gas to make it work.
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I understand what your saying, but thought that para and ortho-hydrogen are terms strictly for the H2 molecule nuclei spin states in relation to each other. However, pizza ovens run on either methane(CH4) or propane(C3H8) where the single hydrogen atom is bonded to carbon not hydrogen. Correct me if I’m wrong.

If you are onto something I’m not seeing, there should be a theoretical mathematical increase in BTU output and resultant reduction in gas usage. I’d like to see the math if you’ve done it. If the saving is consequential, tests could easily be developed but this requires a number of units/ovens to be run under identical circumstances.
 
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I would like to get George Mill’s comments as he is the one guy here that has years in the oven industry. He had something like this at Pizza Expo this year. I am curious as to what his experience has been.
 
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pizza99 said:
I understand what your saying, but thought that para and ortho-hydrogen are terms strictly for the H2 molecule nuclei spin states in relation to each other. However, pizza ovens run on either methane(CH4) or propane(C3H8) where the single hydrogen atom is bonded to carbon not hydrogen. Correct me if I’m wrong.

If you are onto something I’m not seeing, there should be a theoretical mathematical increase in BTU output and resultant reduction in gas usage. I’d like to see the math if you’ve done it. If the saving is consequential, tests could easily be developed but this requires a number of units/ovens to be run under identical circumstances.
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I am on my way to a root canal and will answer in greater depth later. I am enclosing Ed Grahams Centech 21 thesis on ortho-hydrogen on our system. He is one of the scientists on the NASA team who developed the rocket engines that that used ortho-hydrogen.

The basic point is that inn its natural para state, the hydrogen electron runs around the nucleus in a gear-like fashion; when it (electron) is electromotively excited within the magnetic field, the nucleus / electron relationship is reversed so the spin is in a friction-like anti-gear like fashion which creates the electromotive charge potential. That unit potential, measurable in fluids often as mV, breaks up the associations (molecular clusters) by the charged molecules repelling each other. The separation of the clusters into single molecules not only creates greater available surface area for oxygen bonding/ionization, but the potentiated fuel molecules now have an electromotive attraction which bonds more oxygen creating more thorough ionization (increased combustion efficiency) and therefore more BTU output. The important issue an the reason we have been having results is that the field must designed in such a manner that it goes through steel pipe and is strong enough to saturate the gas. Additionally, there is a stabilization period that must be addressed which has not in the past. I shall submit more later, but the tests and results are fairly basic. It is a working science and a working technology.
 
Hi Daddio:

I had this specific product at pizza expo.

It was completely new to me. We showed it to a lot of folks to test the response.

Most were interested in saving on their gas cost but many expressed that they were skeptical and wanted more evidence.

We did not take orders at the show but informed the manufacturer of the interest and the need for some confirming test reports from a recognized testing source.

I am convinced by the manufacturer’s eagerness to get a test done that he is being truthful. Otherwise he would be dodging a test.

As soon as we get a test done to convince the sceptics I will be selling and promoting this product

George Mills
 
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maybe i don’t quite understand…you say you tested it on a few restaurants and showed a savings…wouldn’t you call that a successful test? are you asking for a different way to get the skeptics on your side? these days people expect instant gratification waiting a month for metal to get saturated may be unrealistic…what does the metal get saturated with?

Also, the first thing that popped in my head after reading this was back in the 90’s when everyone was taping those tiny powerful magnets on their bodies to help with just about everything…i remember my mom had them all over her ears and neck…needless to say she doesn’t use them anymore…

The best way to get someone on your side is to give your product away for free…that’s what we do here in the restaurant biz and i can tell you right now if you save a restaurant owner $12oo a year the will gladly buy your product…what will it cost in the end anyway?
 
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tguag said:
The best way to get someone on your side is to give your product away for free…that’s what we do here in the restaurant biz and i can tell you right now if you save a restaurant owner $12oo a year the will gladly buy your product…what will it cost in the end anyway?
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With over 35 years of research, development and applications worldwide of the Mark 1 Systems, the new Natural Gas Super Saver is much more powerful and works well. It has a money-back guarantee and a lifetime Power Warranty. To cut through so everyone can see the results, we are making arrangements to get a certified test.

I want to thank everyone for their comments. They have helped guide us in the proper direction. At your service, Peter Kulish, EnviroMagnetics.Net
 
so no? understand that you may not want to give away your product for free but there are plenty of ways to let people try it for free…like missy said:

Another option would be to give it to a pizzeria and let them pay back just the amount of money that they saved until the thing is paid off. This is what some companies do who come in and promise to save you a lot of money on winterizing or putting in more efficient lighting. If the client is REALLY going to save money with this, then it’s a win/win for both sides.

money back guarantees are worthless these days…especially on something like this. because every p.o.s. on the shelf has a money back guarantee…I’m not saying your product is a piece of junk i don’t even know what your product is.
 
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I have been in the business of fluid conditioning for many years having invented the original Monopolar Flux Driver Clamp Technology that had enough energy in a design that would go through steel pipe. Through the years we have had very few systems that did not work up to par and gladly gave their money-back. We have even given their money back while re-adjusting the application so it worked for them. Money back guarantees are only as good as the company issuing them. We have always operated reputably and our guarantees, warranties and integrity means a lot to us and to all our clients through the years. Fortunately with our advanced designs, we had very few returns. Peter Kulish, Founder, EnviroMagnetics, Magnetizer Group, BiomagScience, Foundation for Magnetic Science.
 
Is this like the super magnet bracelet that gives you super balance and cures all sorts of ailments?

I’m not a physics guru but this is suppose to take 3-4 weeks to “fully saturate” the lines before it works? Seems like the perfect amount of time to leave town with the customers money.

Am I the only one who sees this as pure snake oil? These magnet scams have worked their way into every industry from health to pizza.
 
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Pardon me, but magnetism is the glue of the universe. Daily, its ubiquitous forms create the electricity that keeps our food cold, lights our homes, run the figures on this screen, run the speakers that sound into our ears, spark the plugs that turn the crankshaft, charge the capacitance of our cell’s membranes to transfer nutrition and electrochemically produce the ATP that drives the mouth and everything else bodily that can be measured at the micro level through resonance imaging and a million other working applications. Energizing a gaseous fluid like Natural Gas is a simple process and like all processes, all aspects of it are taken into consideration. Its just like your body - if you don’t get enough donor electrons (anti-oxidants which have a negative charge) to neutralize all the normal free-radicals (which are positively charged), your biochemistry is apt to become acid, a positive biochemistry which supports the proliferation of inflammation and cancer.
 
While I don’t doubt magnetism plays an important part in the universe, I do know one thing - if you invented something that did what you claimed, you wouldn’t be here peddling it on a small pizzeria owners forum.

People have been trying to prove that magnets do all sorts of BS things for a while now and I think they are left unchecked because guys like you can spit out jargon that the average person can’t even understand, let alone debate. But here’s the problem, the people that DO understand have laughed at this concept and moved along long ago.

Who moderates this forum? Is spam generally allowed here? I’m really surprised this ended up at the pizza expo… I guess they were right - a sucker is born every minute.

Also, video of your associates “very sophisticated state of the art laboratory” looks a whole hell of a lot like the garage of his house. Dude didn’t even bother trying to make it look clean.

Good luck…
 
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I agree there is a lot of crap out there in the marketplace. Wannebes of this and that which do not work very well. Sometimes their system technology works, but the people behind it do not understand how it works, so the testing fails because not all the requirements were considered.

Glad you enjoyed the Calvin’s “very sophisticated state of the art laboratory.” He’s a funny guy, but at gut level, Calvin’s test is fairly simple. Making sure there was no change in the gas flow, the oven heated 20% faster - not bad. That means that the temp control on a normal oven would reduced the supply 20% sooner - typical of what the anecdotal test results clients have reported. Since there is very little more to say until the certified tests are done, best of luck and health to everyone.
 
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