Hobart 20Q legacy trips GFCI circuit breaker

Discussion in 'The Think Tank' started by bouldercreekpizza, May 18, 2012.

  1. bouldercreekpizza

    bouldercreekpizza New Member

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    I recently purchased a used Hobart 20Q legacy mixer-HL200. I plugged it into a couple different GFCI circuits and it trips them immediately. No problems when run on non GFCI circuits. I did read something on the web stating that since the motor uses a phase converter, this mixer trips GFCI circuits. Anyone have any insight?
     
  2. stebby1

    stebby1 Member

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    GFCI's watch how much juice is coming back compared to how much is going out. If more goes out than comes back, it trips. I presume that your phase converter is converting to 3 phase. I think this would make the outlet sense more going out than coming back. It is also recommended to not plug anything refrigeration related into gfci's as the "inrush" current the compressor and all that jazz pulls when they start can trip some GFCI's.
     
  3. bouldercreekpizza

    bouldercreekpizza New Member

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    When I took the cover off the mixer, I did note that the motor was 3 phase despite the fact that the mixer takes standard 115 volt, single phase input. It seems hard to believe Hobart would design a mixer that isn't compatible with modern electrical safety code.
    I take part in mobile events and the vast majority of power that is provided is GFCI protected-as it should be for outside use.
     
  4. Tom Lehmann

    Tom Lehmann Well-Known Member

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    Maybe this is something that you need to take up with the folks over at Hobart in Troy, Ohio. I'm betting that you will hear something about their mixers not being designed for "outside" use. But your complaint is a real one, and something they need to be made aware of.
    Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
     
  5. bouldercreekpizza

    bouldercreekpizza New Member

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    I did get an update from Hobart tech. Looks like I'm holdin' the bag on this one. The recommended remedy is to install a Pass & Seymour GFCI as it does not trip in response to the machines inherent electrical leakage issue. However, given that I do events, I'm stuck with the GFCI power outlets that are supplied by the organizer. Ouch.
    I installed a Pass and Seymour GFCI at my commissary and sure enough the trip problem went away.
    Hobart said the HL200 machine was updated in 2009 to cure the trip issue. To determine if the machine is updated, take the top cover off to see if the motor is wrapped with a Mylar sheet. If so, it's the updated machine.
     
  6. NY Pizza

    NY Pizza New Member

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    It might be a bit of a pain in the a$$, but why not just take the Pass & Seymour GFCI with you to the events, switch it over, then switch back when you're done. Switching ought to take just a couple minutes (especially after doing it a few times). Just make sure to also have a tester to make sure the juice is turned off.
     
  7. qcfmike

    qcfmike New Member

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    NY I am not sure many locations would like vendors or other playing with their outlets... what happens if there is a problem later and it is shown that the GFCI was the cause and it was tampered with by an unlicensed electrician. I would say rig up an extension cord with your GFCI on the end but if I remember right if you have two GFCI's on the same circuit it trips them both? Anyone confirm this one?
     
  8. peaceandpizza

    peaceandpizza New Member

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    Placing a second GFCI in series won't stop the first one from tripping. The first one will still detect the current imbalance.

    I think about the only way you could keep the GFCI from tripping is to use an isolation transformer, which is probably more expense and trouble than it's worth. But the kicker here is that the GFCI is doing its job, turning off the power when it detects a current imbalance so someone doesn't get electrocuted. If the equipment is tripping it, it has a problem, even if (unfortunately) it's a problem with the original design.
     
  9. qcfmike

    qcfmike New Member

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    PaP... I agree that this shows the GFCI are working and since you are traveling with this I would go the Hobart fix and not risk a shock! My thoughts on using the cord and additional GFCI... I see it now...it is just not tripping with the leakage but sending it through. ie: goes to the next GFCI and trips. Back to my original comment that I "think" 2 GFCI's will trip up no matter what. I was told this and have not tested it out. Just go with the mylar shielding! :idea:
     
  10. peaceandpizza

    peaceandpizza New Member

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    Here's another thought I just had. If updated units have the motor wrapped in a mylar sheet, it sounds to me like they're electrically isolating the motor from the rest of the chassis. That's kind of a funny way to fix this design issue, but I digress. :D You may be able to get an electrician to do the same. I doubt your neighborhood electrician would have a mylar sheet, but there may be other ways for a handy and clever person to accomplish this isolation from the chassis. Anyway, standard disclaimers apply, your mileage may vary, don't kill yourself or anyone else attempting this....
     
  11. Pretzels

    Pretzels New Member

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    This is an old post, but I have the same problem. Clip the ground post off your plug, it will solve your problem. Not ideal, but for vendors like us that use a lot of outdoor receptacles it works.
     
  12. pizza99

    pizza99 Member

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    Thanks for the input. In fact, when I bought the mixer the ground post was missing so of coarse the first thing I did was replace the plug end! As it is, almost all shows we do have spider boxes with a non GFCI 30 amp, 240 outlet so I build a small distribution box the splits the 240v into 2-120v, 20 amp Pass and Seymour outlets. If I forget the distribution box sometime then I'll put the pliers to work.
     
  13. HR Pizza

    HR Pizza New Member

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    Just ran into the same issue with a new mixer in our truck. Trips GFCI breakers instantly. The manufacture said that unfortunately this is normal as the motor is a 230 volt (from Italy) which is converted to 120v via a internal transformer. I will try the Pass and Seymour outlet and if it makes any difference but being that most mixers will be located in a kitchen and code (in most places) requires GFCI outlets, you would think this would be a deal breaker.
     
  14. pizza99

    pizza99 Member

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    We use the Pass and Seymour GFCI and that solved the problem.