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Incorporating a preferment into Lehmann Dough?

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norma427

New member
I would like to try to incorporate a preferment (poolish, biga or sponge) and be able to test about 5 dough balls to see if I can achieve better crust flavor. I am currently using a Lehmann recipe with 59% hydration, baked in a Baker’s Pride GP-61 oven. I do a one day ferment. I won’t know until I try different experiments if this is really something I will be able to achieve. My crust flavor is okay now, but after experimenting with longer ferment times, I would like to be able to take my crust flavor to the next level. Since I am only operating one day a week at the farmer’s market, I would like to make the preferment ahead of time and incorporate it into my dough and then do a 24 hour ferment. Because of higher electric bills in our area in 2010, I don’t want to keep my refrigeration running all week for a longer ferment time.
Has any one here ever tried this method? If you have any input on trying this, please let me know.
Thanks,
Norma
 
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Norma;
Try this;
Take 1/3 of the flour and 0.1% IDY, based on the weight of the flour and adjust the absorption to 50%, based on the weight of the flour. Mix this together for about 5-minutes, and set aside in the cooler to slowly ferment overnight, then add this to the mixing bowl along with the other 2/3 of the flour, the full compliment of IDY and all of the other ingredients you’re using. Adjust the total dough absorption to 56% (based on the weight of the 2/3 fresh flour that you’re adding at the bowl). Mix the dough just until it comes smooth, then scale, ball, oil, ferment overnight in the cooler and use as needed over the next two days. For a flavor change, you might even consider substututing up to 10% of the water that you add to the 2/3 of the flour with beer.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
 
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Tom,
Thank you for answering my post. Your idea of a preferment sounds great to me. 😃 I am trying to learn more about preferments and how they affect crust flavor. The idea of adding beer really sounds interesting. Do you mind telling me what flavor the beer adds to the crust? Since I will be trying this at my pizza stand at market, do you think there would be any problems with adding beer to my dough? I know that alcohol does cook out went cooking, but you really have me laughing even thinking about using this. :lol: I will try your other preferment first, before I try the beer. I have a lot of experimenting to do and will let you know what results I can achieve.
Thanks,
Norma
 
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Tom Lehmann:
Adjust the total dough absorption to 56% (based on the weight of the 2/3 fresh flour that you’re adding at the bowl).
Click to expand...
Tom,

As a point of clarification, in the above quoted portion of your reply to Norma are you saying that the total dough formulation (a part of which is to be used to make the preferment) should have a hydration of 56%? Norma indicated that she is currently using a total dough hydration of 59%.

Thanks.

PN
 
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PN;
That’s correct. Because of the fermented sponge portion, the dough will be a little softer, so to correct for this, we reduce the absorption a little to help maintain the desired dough consistency.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
 
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Tom and pizzanerd,
Thank you both very much for helping me with this preferment. Will let you know how this preferment effects the taste of the crust.
Norma
 
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Tom Lehmann:
Take 1/3 of the flour and 0.1% IDY, based on the weight of the flour
Click to expand...
Tom,

I interpret the above quoted statement to mean that the 0.1% IDY is with respect to the preferment flour, not the total formula flour. Is that correct?

Also, how soon can the preferment be made? For example, can it be made early in the morning of one day and be used to make the final dough the next day after spending the night in the cooler?

Norma also asked about the benefits of using beer and whether using beer might pose a problem when used in a commercial setting where pizza is sold to the public. Do you have any thoughts or advice on these matters?

Thanks.

PN
 
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Tom,
I appreciate you answering my questions and pizzanerd’s on how to make this preferment. Since I am new to making preferments, I didn’t weigh my ingredients right for my biga or my standard Lehmann dough. I forgot to subtract the remaining total formula water: 629.75 grams (22.21 ounces) [Note: 896.59-266.84 = 629.75). What my final dough was like, was a much higher hydration than it should have been. I still used the dough after a 24 hour fermentation. It still had a very good flavor.
I will mix the preferment and the standard Lehmann dough recipe I am using and remember to subtract the amount of water next week when preparing the biga and the standard Lehmann dough.

This is what forumla Pete-zza (Peter) on pizzamaking.com figured out for me to help me get the results I want to achieve. If you have time, would you please make sure I am going about this in the right way.
Thanks for all the help you have given me in the past.
Norma

Norma,

For the benefit of those who are following this thread, the quote you recited comes from the PMQ Think Tank thread at viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8419.

I interpret the quoted portion to mean that a sponge (actually the consistency is more a biga consistency) will soften the final dough and, to combat this, the total formula hydration is lowered. That is why Tom specified a total dough hydration of 56% instead of the 58% hydration that you have been using. A classic biga with around 50% hydration will be a stiff piece of dough.

I took the dough formulation you posted in Reply 38 of this thread, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index. … l#msg86384, with the 56% hydration that Tom recommended, and transformed it into the following three-part format set forth below. In this transformation, I assumed that the 0.1% IDY was with respect to the preferment flour rather than the total formula flour, and that the full complement of the total formula yeast, 0.25%, is used in the Final Mix.

Total Lehmann NY Style Dough Formulation
King Arthur Sir Lancelot Flour (100%):
Water (56%):
IDY (0.25%):
Salt (1.75%):
Olive Oil (1%):
Total (159%):
Single Ball:
1601.05 g | 56.47 oz | 3.53 lbs
896.59 g | 31.63 oz | 1.98 lbs
4 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.33 tsp | 0.44 tbsp
28.02 g | 0.99 oz | 0.06 lbs | 5.02 tsp | 1.67 tbsp
16.01 g | 0.56 oz | 0.04 lbs | 3.56 tsp | 1.19 tbsp
2545.67 g | 89.79 oz | 5.61 lbs | TF = 0.08932
509.13 g | 17.96 oz | 1.12 lbs
Note: Nominal thickness factor = 0.088; for five dough balls for five 16" pizzas; bowl residue compensation = 1.5%

PrefermentKing Arthur Sir Lancelot Flour (100%):
Water (50%):
IDY (0.10%):
Total (150.1%):
533.68 g | 18.82 oz | 1.18 lbs
266.84 g | 9.41 oz | 0.59 lbs
0.53 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.18 tsp | 0.06 tbsp
801.06 g | 28.26 oz | 1.77 lbs
Note: Preferment flour represents 1/3 of the total formula flour (1/3 x 1601.05 = 533.68); the IDY is with respect to the preferment flour

Final Mix
Preferment (as noted above): 801.06 grams (28.26 ounces)
Remaining 2/3 of the King Arthur Sir Lancelot flour: 1067.37 grams (37.65 ounces)
Remaining total formula water: 629.75 grams (22.21 ounces) [Note: 896.59-266.84 = 629.75)
Total formula IDY (0.25%): 4 grams | 0.14 ounces | 0.01 lbs | 1.33 tsp | 0.44 tbsp
Total formula salt (1.75%): 28.02 grams | 0.99 ounces | 0.06 lbs | 5.02 tsp | 1.67 tbsp
Total formula oil (1%): 16.01 grams | 0.56 ounces | 0.04 lbs | 3.56 tsp | 1.19 tbsp
Total dough weight = 2546.21 grams (89.81 ounces, or 5.61 lbs)

You will note that I treated the two additions of yeast separately. I could have added the preferment yeast to the basic Lehmann dough formulation instead, which would have changed the numbers slightly (actually, very slightly). But, I stuck to the procedures recommended by Tom.

In preparing the dough, you should have made the preferment as instructed by Tom and you should have used it the next day in the Final Mix along with the rest of the ingredients as referenced above in the Final Mix. Did your numbers mirror those given above, or something close to them?

Peter
 
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PN:
When we make an overnight sponge like this, the yeast level in the sponge is based on the weight of flour in the sponge portion. Since the sponge is being fermented in the cooler over night, the actual fermentation time isn’t as critical as it would be if we were fermenting the sponge at room temperature. This is one of the strong points of the overnight sponge dough process. So, you can set the sponge one day, place it in the cooler, and use it on the following day, at a time that is convenient to you. As for using beer, in the dough, this does impart a rather unique flavor to the finished dough. I wrote an article addressing this topic (for Pizza Today), some time ago. The only down side to using beer, or wine in making your dough is the pootential for “social” stigma. "What do you mean you put “BEER/WINE into the pizza that is sold to my children!” Shush, we won’t tell them that we are mainng alcohol in the dough as part of our normal fermentation process. Be sure to experiment with different types of beer as it does make a difference. I’ve used it to replace up to about 15% of the water used in the dough formula. By the way, just in case you’re wondering, essentially all of the alcohol is evaporated off during the baking of the dough, so no, the kids aren’t going to get intoxicated eating a pizza made on a beer crust, they might get addicted to eating a great tasting pizza though, but that’s a whole different story.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
 
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Tom,
Thank you for answering all the questions that pizzanerd and I had asked. I find it interesting about how the overnight sponge idea contributes to the finished dough flavor. I made the sponge yesterday morning and will incorporate the sponge into the dough today.
Lol…I find the beer in the dough to be a unique idea. I wonder how many people or pizza businesses have tried this?
After my initial trial with the sponge, I might go onto your idea of adding beer. Thanks for telling pizzanerd and myself to try different kinds of beer, as it can impart different flavors.

Thanks for taking the time to help me try to make a better flavor in my crust. I still am very satisfied with the regular Lehmann dough. My customers really love the taste of the crust.

I will let you know what different results I can get in the reference to better crust flavor.

Norma
 
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Tom,
I used this preferment and final dough today. When I mixed the dough yesterday, it was so dry my dough hook didn’t want to pick up the dough because it was dry. It finally did incorporate all the ingredients and then I added the preferment. I couldn’t get the dough to form into a regular ball. It was shaggy. I was mixing the dough at market and it was only 48 degrees F at market. I used a high temperature water of 124 degrees F so my final dough temperature would be near 80-85 degrees F. My final dough temperature was 78 degrees F. The dough was then left in the deli case until this afternoon. I then left the dough on the counter to let it warm up for 2 hours. The temperature at market today was 68 degrees F. When I tried to open the dough, it was still very dry.
I wonder if you have any comments or think I should use a higher hydration for my next trial?

Thanks,
Norma
 
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Norma;
It sounds like your flour isn’t getting sufficient water to fully hydrate it. You will need to increase the dough absorption. I would try it again, but this next time use at least 5% more water.
Tom
 
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Norma;
I forgot to ask, what was your finished sponge temperature (after mixing)? And what was your final dough temperature after mixing?
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
 
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Tom,
My finished sponge temperature was 82 degrees F. I was making that at home to try this method. I made the sponge part Sunday and refrigerated it at home. Took it to market on Monday and the finished dough temperature was 78 degrees F. When I am at market, they don’t have the heat on very much until market day, which is on Tuesday. I mixed the dough part on Monday when it was cold.
I am only trying this out to see if I can get a better crust flavor of the Lehmann dough I am using now.
I am having many customers that comment on how good my crust is now. That is really from all your experience and your Lehmann dough. I really don’t need to change anything, but am always experimenting with something new.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions,

Norma
 
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Norma;
Your sponge and dough temperatures look good, so I’m thinking that all you might need to do is to get your dough absorption adjusted so the dough isn’t so dry.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
 
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Tom,

I am going to try a hydration of 62% to see what effect that has on the finished dough.

Thank you for taking the time to go over all of this and helping me to achieve a better crust.

Thanks,
Norma
 
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Tom,

Thank you again, for answering my questions. I think this time the dough will be 62% and I will let you know how it turns out.

Thanks,
Norma
 
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Tom,

If you have time, could you answer one more question for me. I would like to know if you means the total formula hydration, not the hydration of the sponge? Should I keep my same hydration for the sponge and just increase my hydration to 62% to see what results I receive?

Thanks,
Norma
 
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Norma;
Keep the sponge hydration where it is, just increase the total dough absorption. The easiest way to calculate this is by using your calculator, and entering your total flour weight (including the weight of the flour in the sponge) then press X followed by 62 then press the “%” key and read the total water amount in the display. Not done yet…Now, subtract the amount of water that you have added to the sponge, and this will be the new amount of water that you will add to the dough when you remix the sponge into the remainder of the ingredients (correctly referred to as the “dough”.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
 
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Tom,

Thank you for helping me out with the calculations and what to do. Since my math skills aren’t the best, your easy explanation has helped me a lot. I will post when I make the dough this coming week.

Thanks,
Norma
 
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