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Is anyone offering an "Upside Down" pizza (sauce on top of cheese)

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GotRocks

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We have it as an option, it hasn’t caught on heavy yet.

But what I have my guys doing is when we get an order loaded heavy with vegetables for DEL-CO, I have them build it with the cheese on the crust so the customer doesn’t get as sloppy of a waterlogged mess from all the veg watering out.

The heavy veg pies hold up well for dining room, but anything out the door turns into a mess.

What do you guys do to combat the sloppiness of excess liquids from heavy veg?
 
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This is a case where air impingement ovens come into their own since they can be set up to provide increased airflow to the top of the pizza during baking to more effectively reduce the amount of water remaining after baking. We also use a very light coating of oil on the pizza skin prior to dressing to help create a moisture barrier, thus helping to retain some resemblance of crispiness for a little longer after boxing. Another thing that might help is to lower the baking temperature and bake the pizzas a little longer to achieve a more solid bake to the bottom of the pizza while allowing more time to evaporate moisture from the top of the pizza. Truth is that I have yet to find an effective way to package a pizza loaded with vegetable toppings and keep it hot without steaming it while while taking it home, and all bets are off of the table once you put it into an insulated delivery bag while running around with it in a car for 20 to 30-minutes. About the best bet yet is to place the pizza onto a mat or ripple sheet to hold the pizza up off of the bottom of the box or pizza circle, use a box with plenty of ventilation holes (make sure the holes are punched open), and paper bag it if you can as opposed to using an insulated delivery bag. I realize that the paper bag will not keep the pizza as hot as the delivery bag (may lead to discussions with your health department in a delivery situation) , but the pizza won’t get as soggy either. We have also looked at using different types of crusts for DELCO and we have pretty well confirmed that a cracker type crust will normally stand up better to the rigors of DELCO than the more traditional types of pizza crust, even at its best, there is no comparison to a dine in pizza. Maybe some day someone will test my idea of using an insulated bag with a Gore-Tex or Dry-Plus liner and a nylon or some other synthetic outer shell. This would allow the bag to breathe so steam from the pizza could escape while heat is reflected back to the pizza. This is how my rain proof hunting clothing works, and if it can keep me dry and warm by blocking entry of water and allowing for ventilation of moisture (sweat) while reflecting my body heat back to me, in theory it might also work in a similar way when used in the construction of a pizza delivery bag. Note: This is now in public domain so the idea can’t be patented. Actually it has been there for years but to my knowledge, never acted upon.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
 
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I’m really liking your Gore-Tex idea, Maybe a valid kickstarter project would be in order? I could see many in the industry really wanting something like this if the pricing was comparable. I know i’d spend extra to be able to deliver a superior product.

We just started delivery within the last month, we weren’t pushing our pizza end of the business until lately, and we’re still fairly happy with traffic flow from word of mouth only. Starting early 2015, we’ll be doing a large advertising campaign to see if we can dominate this area in pizza now that we’ve got some reliable talent on board.

As per HD rules, I believe the time at an uncontrolled temp between 40-140 is still 4 hours before consumption or launching it onto the garbage

We are baking in “Sveba Dahlen Classic” decks, we have the top heat maxed, with deck heat set at its minimum with the main temp set at 300C We are very happy with what we have coming out except for the heavy veg that ends up sitting.
I prefer to send pizzas out in bags over boxes, not just for the cost, but we leave a corner opened to vent copious amounts of vapor, we also stage our carry-outs on a stainless rack so moisture is not trapped under them

I did play with a different cheese last week, we sampled a no-name LMPS generic shred. The watering issue was visibly lessened, but the flavor and texture was nothing near our Whole-Milk Grande, maybe I’ll try the Grande 50/50 blend to see if the flavor & texture are similar and we may end up with a bit drier top too.

Thank you for your time, …
 
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Have you thought about putting on just enough veggies to not water out the pie? I was raised in the 1960’s-70’s NYC/NJ pizza world. We apply veggie toppings sparsely. If people ask for heavier concentrations of veggies I tell the NY style dough will not support it. We use Grande LMWM mozzarella and a very thin crust (20oz ball for an 18" pie) and the water issue from veggies is nill. Lots of pizzerias back home put the cheese on first and are called red tops or tomato pies. Walter
 
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A bit off topic and probably more than anyone wants to know…

Breathability of laminated textiles is very limited. Goretex may be the best of them but the fact is that not that much moisture vapor gets through it. Some of the more breathable varients along the line of the “Active Products” might be a bit better suited. In the end though, a laminate PTFE (polytetrafluoroethylene with an additional coating of polyalkylene oxide polyurethane urea) will be LESS breathable than simple nylon fabric. As to cost, making a bag with a goretex laminated fabric replacing either the inner layer or the outer layer of fabric would double the cost of the bag assuming you could get WL Gore to allow the use without seamtaping.

Breathability is governed by the law of partial pressures (Dalton’s Law) which in a nutshell states that gasses will seek to reach equilibrium in concentration. Water vapor is a gas. To the extent that there is a higher temp and level of water vapor (high vapor pressure) on one side of a barrier than there is on the other side there will be a “pressure” differential driving moisture vapor through the barrier. The amount of moisture vapor that will pass through is governed by two things: the degree of pressure differential and the nature of the barrier.

In the case of the pizza bag, you have a pretty high pressure differential. The temp in the bag is normally considerably higher than the temp outside and the humidity is 100%. While goretex and it variants and competitors are “breathable” anything that is actually a waterproof barrier is going to be a substantial barrier to moisture vapor transfer and less breathable than a textile without that added technology. The “breathable” waterproof fabrics are MORE breathable than other waterproof fabrics but much LESS breathable than fabric which is not laminated or coated to a waterproof level.

Typical nylon used in many products has a light polyurethane coating to prevent fraying of the fabric when it is cut to pattern but this is not a solid barrier. Some of the pizza bag suppliers call out that they use “100% waterproof” fabric which is fabric with much heavier coating of PU which is not breathable actually trapping the moisture vapor in the bag. This is actually part of the problem. There would be less issue with soggy pizza if they would NOT use waterproof fabric. The waterproofness is a feature we do not benefit from as typical nylon is plenty water repellent enough to keep rain between the car and the front door from getting to the pizza. In fact, some of the “softshell” technology used in outdoor garments would make a much better pizza bag than goretex and would cost quite a bit less.

PS my resume includes years at Marmot and Patagonia including overall responsibility for product development at Marmot and I have visited the WL Gore production facilities many times.

https://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=43854952&trk=nav_responsive_tab_profile
 
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Have you thought about putting on just enough veggies to not water out the pie? I was raised in the 1960’s-70’s NYC/NJ pizza world. We apply veggie toppings sparsely. If people ask for heavier concentrations of veggies I tell the NY style dough will not support it. We use Grande LMWM mozzarella and a very thin crust (20oz ball for an 18" pie) and the water issue from veggies is nill. Lots of pizzerias back home put the cheese on first and are called red tops or tomato pies. Walter
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My whole “Thing” with pizza (and most food for that matter) is “Go big, or go home” So our style of pizza is fairly heavily loaded compared to what else is available in the area. This is due to my absolute most favorite pizza, they one I grew up eating at a place on the south side of Milwaukee. you could not see the cheese through the sausage, mushrooms & onions on top of them. It was not overwhelming, just amazing.
We’ve got a 'Monicals Pizza" walking distance (less than a mile) down the road from us, their “thing” is super thin, sparsely topped, they are decent if eaten in house, but anything out the door picks up the flavor of the cardboard that it is served on.

I think I am going to try the pizza mats to see if they improve the Del-Co’s and maybe look at some other packaging options that’ll vent out the steam better than what we get for boxes from Sysco or wherever they are currently coming from

One other thing that we’ve been playing with, I have had a sheeter sitting in storage that I found in this building when I moved in, I brought that in to the shop again to play with it, and tried my hand-tossed dough through it, I gotta admit, it was impressive, especially with it’s 4.5 minute bake time. I may go to 2 different crust options here with our original hand-tossed, and a thin & crispy version. I was looking at a pan pizza option, but that is just too much happening at once.
Remember pizza is only 1 part of what we offer, and I am overloaded with work as it is.
 
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IMHBCO, we “drill” extra holes in the boxes themselves before they’re assembled, and we’ “customized” the delivery bag, by punching several “holes” in the bag, and reinforced them with grommets…that being said, we also use a heated disk system in each bag…works just super!
 
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IMHBCO, we “drill” extra holes in the boxes themselves before they’re assembled, and we’ “customized” the delivery bag, by punching several “holes” in the bag, and reinforced them with grommets…that being said, we also use a heated disk system in each bag…works just super!
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What are you guys using to drill/punch the holes in the boxes? My guess would be a hollow steel tube chucked in a drill with the end sharpened?

Can you post a picture? I am really intrigued by this.
I prefer to see our pizzas packaged in paper bags for carry-outs, unless of course there are multiples, then we use a combo of boxes & bags. For delivery, we use boxes only

I think I have a few pieces of steel brake line laying around that I could use to make one of those hole punching tools. Thank you for sharing

I’m considering a 12VDC heated and vented enclosure for the drivers cars, hopefully our delivery service continues to grow, so I can get a few Cooper Mini’s and get them rigged with a good semi-permanent transport box system in them. We probably will not see temperatures much above 20F degrees again until mid to late May 2015
 
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GotRocks said:
What are you guys using to drill/punch the holes in the boxes? My guess would be a hollow steel tube chucked in a drill with the end sharpened?

Can you post a picture? I am really intrigued by this.
I prefer to see our pizzas packaged in paper bags for carry-outs, unless of course there are multiples, then we use a combo of boxes & bags. For delivery, we use boxes only

I think I have a few pieces of steel brake line laying around that I could use to make one of those hole punching tools. Thank you for sharing
Click to expand...
Yes, I am interested in this as well…
 
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This is a case where air impingement ovens come into their own since they can be set up to provide increased airflow to the top of the pizza during baking to more effectively reduce the amount of water remaining after baking. We also use a very light coating of oil on the pizza skin prior to dressing to help create a moisture barrier, thus helping to retain some resemblance of crispiness for a little longer after boxing. Another thing that might help is to lower the baking temperature and bake the pizzas a little longer to achieve a more solid bake to the bottom of the pizza while allowing more time to evaporate moisture from the top of the pizza. Truth is that I have yet to find an effective way to package a pizza loaded with vegetable toppings and keep it hot without steaming it while while taking it home, and all bets are off of the table once you put it into an insulated delivery bag while running around with it in a car for 20 to 30-minutes. About the best bet yet is to place the pizza onto a mat or ripple sheet to hold the pizza up off of the bottom of the box or pizza circle, use a box with plenty of ventilation holes (make sure the holes are punched open), and paper bag it if you can as opposed to using an insulated delivery bag. I realize that the paper bag will not keep the pizza as hot as the delivery bag (may lead to discussions with your health department in a delivery situation) , but the pizza won’t get as soggy either. We have also looked at using different types of crusts for DELCO and we have pretty well confirmed that a cracker type crust will normally stand up better to the rigors of DELCO than the more traditional types of pizza crust, even at its best, there is no comparison to a dine in pizza. Maybe some day someone will test my idea of using an insulated bag with a Gore-Tex or Dry-Plus liner and a nylon or some other synthetic outer shell. This would allow the bag to breathe so steam from the pizza could escape while heat is reflected back to the pizza. This is how my rain proof hunting clothing works, and if it can keep me dry and warm by blocking entry of water and allowing for ventilation of moisture (sweat) while reflecting my body heat back to me, in theory it might also work in a similar way when used in the construction of a pizza delivery bag. Note: This is now in public domain so the idea can’t be patented. Actually it has been there for years but to my knowledge, never acted upon.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
Click to expand...
Why not either spin your veggies in a salad spinner before putting them away after being cut?

-Or-

A handful of breadcrumbs goes a long way if you sauce, lightly cheese, bread crumb, top, rest of cheese.
 
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Steve said:
Why not either spin your veggies in a salad spinner before putting them away after being cut?

-Or-

A handful of breadcrumbs goes a long way if you sauce, lightly cheese, bread crumb, top, rest of cheese.
Click to expand...
I do not think spinning fresh cut veggies could remove any noticeable amount of moisture, sure, it’ll remove exterior moisture on freshly washed greens such as lettuce or spinach , but I do not see it dewatering fresh mushrooms, onions & bell peppers to any noticeable extent.

One major improvement is getting on my oven tender to keep the door closed as much as possible, and to brush off the decks more quickly.
It took me baking 2 different pizzas to show him the difference. One with the door open as much as he does, and one keeping the door closed as much as possible.
We turned our deck heat down to zero, and maxed our top heat a few months back, and it helped a bit. Now just got to stay on his butt about doors open more than needed to launch, remove, & clean.
(our oven allows us those specialized controls, its way cool)
 
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GotRocks said:
I do not think spinning fresh cut veggies could remove any noticeable amount of moisture, sure, it’ll remove exterior moisture on freshly washed greens such as lettuce or spinach , but I do not see it dewatering fresh mushrooms, onions & bell peppers to any noticeable extent.

One major improvement is getting on my oven tender to keep the door closed as much as possible, and to brush off the decks more quickly.
It took me baking 2 different pizzas to show him the difference. One with the door open as much as he does, and one keeping the door closed as much as possible.
We turned our deck heat down to zero, and maxed our top heat a few months back, and it helped a bit. Now just got to stay on his butt about doors open more than needed to launch, remove, & clean.
(our oven allows us those specialized controls, its way cool)
Click to expand...
Just give it a try when you have time… It works, especially the breadcrumbs
 
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GotRocks said:
We have it as an option, it hasn’t caught on heavy yet.

But what I have my guys doing is when we get an order loaded heavy with vegetables for DEL-CO, I have them build it with the cheese on the crust so the customer doesn’t get as sloppy of a waterlogged mess from all the veg watering out.

The heavy veg pies hold up well for dining room, but anything out the door turns into a mess.

What do you guys do to combat the sloppiness of excess liquids from heavy veg?
Click to expand...
Is this a thin crust “upside down pie” or more of a pan/deep dish crust?
 
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Joe said:
Is this a thin crust “upside down pie” or more of a pan/deep dish crust?
Click to expand...
We do a hand-tossed thin, or a super-thin, the upside down option is available for either.
We do not offer any pan or deep dish pizzas here
 
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the last 2 years we offered a “artesian x thin crust” some people love it, but i took it off the menu 6 months ago,because it tended to get soggy on to go orders especially veggy pizzas, but the main reason i took it off was, people wanted to take 5 minutes to talk about the choice of crusts when ordering (most people would order our regular crust anyway!) slows down and complicates the order taking process,we will still make it for the customer if asked,all of my bright ideas run into the WALL-----KEEP IT SIMPLE !
 
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GotRocks said:
We do a hand-tossed thin, or a super-thin, the upside down option is available for either.
We do not offer any pan or deep dish pizzas here
Click to expand...
I do a thin pan crust with a caramelized crust. There are pictures of it on my site and this article if you want to see it. I do put pepperoni on top tho if ordered so it can crisp up in the oven. I’m still working out the kinks of delivering it more than 10 mins in the box. Steam can really mess up a pizza.

http://www.thrillist.com/eat/san-fr...r-pizza-at-grinders-pizzeria-in-san-francisco

grinderspizzeriasf

kabar seputar teknologi dan informasi
www.grinderspizzeriasf.com www.grinderspizzeriasf.com
 
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