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Oven query

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sidneyt23

New member
We are starting a new business and would like some input on an oven. The “we” is my boyfriend and I- he had been doing the research on ovens and I thought it would be smart to post a thread before we went and bought it. He is leaning towards a Peerless CW 62. He told me the company has been around for 90+ years and he thinks it is the best for the price. Has anyone worked with this kind of oven? We are going to be a bar serving primarily slices (reheated)/take out pies in a downtown area and would like to do 18" pies on the deck itself. If the pie side of the business takes off, we will get a second oven stack at a later date.
ANY input is much appreciated!

http://www.peerlessovens.com/store.asp?pid=23063
 
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60K btu sounds low powered for two decks. It sounds like it will perform similar to the Blodgett 981 series that I started out with . . . . these are better suited as general baking and roasting ovens. Pizza ovens are usually designs closer ot 100K or 120K btu for that capacity.

Low volume it will be a decent/acceptable oven for you. The more you open and close (the more volume), the more it will drag and drop heat. It will become less fuel efficient with that volume as well. I will wait for others to chime in on the specifics of the actual model, but do know that this will have a limit as to how much you will move through if the pizza end takes off.

A previous thread from 2010
http://www.pmq.com/tt/viewtopic.php?t=9403
 
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Thanks, Nick. I have been reading the threads in descending order…2010 was a ways away! I read today another member that said they had a Peerless as a back up that they ordered from pizzaovens.com and that it was kind of shotty. I asses that Baker’s Pride appears to be the most popular brand…is that the general consensus? Is there a general “best” oven? The bf is getting a lot of equipment from auctions, but ovens don’t seem to come up. (I also read from Royce that refurbished/re-equipped is better than finding something at auction that you don’t know if it is a piece of junk, so this may be a good thing).

Anyone have an oven they swear by…or swear AT for that matter 🙂 ? I will continue reading but I hope to find good info before we are down to the wire to order one. (we plan to open in June)
 
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I have a couple of old Lang electric deck ovens I swear AT almost every single day. They’re 20+ years old and they don’t even make spare parts for it anymore, lol.

I am going to replace them sometime soon and when I do, I will be doing it with Baker’s Pride P44S ovens.
 
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I like Marsals the best. Never worked with Peerless, but I think Marsals are better than Baker’s Pride, though I don’t think you’d go wrong with the latter. Definitely agree with Royce on the refurbished/re-equipped route. I’d say the same about mixers. Good luck!
 
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Rocco:
I like Marsals the best. Never worked with Peerless, but I think Marsals are better than Baker’s Pride, though I don’t think you’d go wrong with the latter. Definitely agree with Royce on the refurbished/re-equipped route. I’d say the same about mixers. Good luck!
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Does Marshall’s even make deck ovens? I went to their website and only saw conveyor ovens.

For us that’s a non-starter. We pride ourselves on being a brick oven place and heavily promote that aspect of our business.
 
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Good morning! So, we decided to scrap the peerless, and a fryer, so we can get a bigger oven with more BTUs and smaller hood…focus just on pies and salads (and baked items). The boyfriend already talked to the hood guy; plans change quick, but I think this is a much better plan!
Now he is looking at a Bakers pride y602 or a Mashall SD-660. Any thoughts?
 
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Decidion:
Does Marshall’s even make deck ovens? I went to their website and only saw conveyor ovens.
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Are you sure you didn’t go to the Middleby Marshall site instead of the Marsal site? I don’t think Marsal even makes conveyor ovens.
 
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sidneyt23:
Now he is looking at a Bakers pride y602 or a Mashall SD-660. Any thoughts?
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Both good. Marsal will tell you that you don’t have to rotate the pies but you still do to get a perfectly cooked pizza. I was leaning towards the BP but was able to get the Marsal cheaper so went that route and haven’t been disappointed.
 
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Bakers Pride gets my vote as well.

Just a question though, how much experience do you guys have with baking pizzas in deck ovens?
 
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Pizzamancer:
Just a question though, how much experience do you guys have with baking pizzas in deck ovens?
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Not forever but six days a week for the past two years baking every pie myself, so I think it safe to say that I know my Marsal oven. Just here and there with a BP before that. That said, I think the models that they’re looking at are pretty similar.
 
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Thanks, All!
PizzaMancer, if you were directing that question of experience towards me/us…I am a nurse and worked in a pizza joint in upstate NY for 2 years. My bf is a small business owner who immigrated here with nothing and worked his arse off (starting off at another immigrant’s pizza venture making dough and selling pizza out of a van 😉 and then at a bunch of dominoes). He owns a night club and a salon currently; salon he physically built and does all the money aspects but has others manage the staff and “beauty” side of it. The club/bar - he bought a failing business and turned it around, learning about all the legalities and management and, basically EVERYTHING, since he had never even worked in a bar before. We both have SOME knowledge but, no…neither of us are experts, but that doesn’t mean that we aren’t capable of learning and working hard and being successful. A space opened up in a busy area of our city where the only late night food is hotdog carts; it’s the perfect spot for a pizza shop/bar. I am researching our market (we are in the NW and a great NY style is lacking here) and recipes while he is building the shop (actual construction). He knows all the legal stuff and we are hiring a bar manager and a kitchen manager. The kitchen manager went to culinary school and knows how to make Neapolitan style, but I am sure he can learn to cook in a deck oven. I am no chef, but I am passionate about making a great product and sharing what we love about great pizza. I am just trying to do my best to get our base recipes close to what we want so he can tweak them once we get the kitchen running and he starts working for us.
So that’s our story. Every day this business is all we talk about and work on. I am grateful to have found such a wealth of knowledge in the TT, much thanks! I would love to have this business be my baby and be there everyday in the thick of it, but I know I am not experienced enough. So, I am doing what I can right now.
 
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I have read some posts in the Think tank where individuals are being sassy towards someone asking a question and their lack of knowledge (“why are you opening a restaurant when you don’t even know this____?”) I hope, Pizzamancer, that you are not looking down your nose at me because I am a newbie…everyone has to start somewhere, you know? Perhaps I am reading it wrong? I think what should matter is your passion for what you are doing, which we have, and a willingness to learn and work hard. I mean the whole point of a think tank is to share knowledge and learn from each other, which I am sure you all do or else you wouldn’t be here. I am just not at a high level of knowledge…yet 😃
 
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I am sure Pizzamancer didn’t mean to come off rude. I think his intention is to just make sure people are aware of what they are getting themselves into. It is far less painful (and expensive) to learn the hard lessons up front than to do it down the road 🙂

I’ve been reading and posting on the boards here for about the last four months or so and everyone seems pretty friendly, in general. Once in awhile people get their nickers in a twist, but just let it wash by you and pay attention to the ones who are really interested in helping. This is common in most online forums… there are always the trolls.

The only legitimate beef I think someone here can have is when someone comes on posting about doing something where they are breaking the law… that gets people riled up real fast, lol 🙂

Other than that, good luck in your new endeavor. It will be hard work, but I bet you will learn a lot!
 
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sidneyt23:
I hope, Pizzamancer, that you are not looking down your nose at me because I am a newbie…everyone has to start somewhere, you know? Perhaps I am reading it wrong?
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Yes, you are reading it wrong. Do not confuse advice with your own preconceptions. I asked because if you have no experience with a deck, then save yourself the hassle and buy a conveyor. Learning from scratch with no mentor on a deck is a recipe for disaster, burnt arms, and crappy pizza.

You can get a nearly identical bake with a significantly shorter learning curve. You are going to need to cut expensive mistakes to as few as possible in your new business, and you can always swap out ovens later.

If you are dead set against a conveyor, then hire a consultant. Someone to train your BF and staff.

If you want some more unsolicited advice, trained chefs working in a slice joint is also a recipe for disaster. Making a great Neapolitan pizza and a slice pie are at polar opposites of the pizza biz. A great manager is far more important than a great cook, unless it is a really great cook, but even then, really great cooks tend to be really good at marketing and managing people.
 
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On the flip side to Pizzamancers point of view, you can be very successful using a deck oven from the start. It isn’t rocket science, and both my son and myself learned how to do it without any outside or additional training from the “experts”, last year, when we opened. And I have never cooked a pizza, commercially, before.

And we have been getting nothing but very positive feedback from our customers.

Is it a recipe for disaster? I guess it depends on the individual, much like getting behind the wheel of a car can be a recipe for disaster to the right individual. If you are competent enough to successfully run a restaurant, I bet you are competent enough to learn how to cook in a brick oven.

Pizzamancers claim about expensive mistakes absolutely does not make sense. Spending a week (or two or more) making and throwing out pizzas is far, far cheaper than than having to replace ovens. I cannot comment on conveyor ovens, as I have never used one, but using a brick oven we make some pretty tasty pies and it’s how we differentiate ourselves from the Dominoes and Little Ceasars of the world.

Try asking some prospective customers… which would they rather eat? A conveyor belt pizza" or a brick oven pizza? In reality, they may not be able to tell the difference (or at least most of them), but I bet you that from the psychological standpoint, the majority will say brick oven 🙂
 
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Sidney 23;
I think it would be safe to say that we are all here to help you however we can.We’re all good intentioned and just want to make sure you are fully aware of the problems that so many of us have had to learn the hard way. With that said, what type of pizzas are you contemplating making? Do you plan to bake right on the deck or use a screen/disk under the pizza? What kind of store are you planning on?
Excuse me for asking al these questions, but it helps us when we know a little more about your concept.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
 
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I have 2 of the Peerless ovens currently, I also have several Marsal ovens and a Rotoflex throughout all of my stores. In the past I have also had Blodgets and Bakers Pride. Out of all of these ovens the Peerless was by far the worst quality of all of them. If bakes ok, but the workmanship and quality is just not there. I would never buy one again.

Marsal is by far the best oven I have used yet, with the Rotoflex coming in at 2nd and the Bakers Pride ovens a distant 3rd. Bakers Pride of 20 years ago was a great oven, but today too much of the oven is made in China and too much of it it cheaply made.
 
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Thanks for the input, everyone. We need as many opinions as we can get. My apologies for being touchy.
Tom, we plan on making NY style, 18" only and selling pies by the whole or half and also having a variety of slices available (which would be reheated to order as needed). Preferably, we would like to not use screens. The bf said in his past experience he had started on the brick then finished on the screen (which is opposite to what I thought people did with a screen). I have a cousin in upstate ny who bought a pizza/pub and learned from scratch. She told me about how she does everything, start to finish, and she uses screens because the bottom was over cooking or was hard to control for her. J She also said she started par baking shells to reduce cooking time for orders (but she said her cooking time was something crazy like 15min!?). I haven’t asked her about her oven; we talked when I first started researching.
We are going to look at a refurbished BP y602 right now. We don’t know the age of the oven. He said its 8400 (without shipping). The marsal is new and is about 12500 (without shipping- he found online)-model is in my previous post). He says there is a new BP y602online for the same price as the marsal.
I am going to scour the TT for oven talk. Thanks again, everyone.
 
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