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question about installing a hood

R

Roger

New member
Here’s my situation: I’m in the process of opening a 3rd location. I’m leasing a space in a plaza/strip mall. It was formerly a Chinese restaurant that closed a couple of months ago. I figured this would be an easy switch to a pizza shop. All the gas hookups I need are there, they left the grease trap, and the walk in cooler as well. The only thing that they took with them was the hood. The exhaust fan is still on the roof. I bought a used hood at an auction so I figured I was good to go.

So there I was a week after signing my lease, painting and getting the place looking nice and in walks the code enforcer who gave me a stop work order for not having a building permit. I knew I would need one for installing the hood but I had no idea I needed a building permit to just paint. So anyways, I’m now in the process of trying to get a building permit. They are requiring me to get a stamped set of blue prints before I can do anything which is pretty pricey and a whole bunch of inspections such as electrical, sprinkler system, fire protection plans, and I need to obtain a plumbing permit. It’s starting to get a lot more expensive than what I planned! The part that confuses me is why I need all of this done when I’m not changing any of the electrical or plumbing and the sprinkler system is already in place and runs through the entire strip mall. The only thing I’m doing is reinstalling a hood where the old one was. I knew I would probably need some kind of permit to do this and I planned on getting one when I was ready to have the hood installed.

Now here’s my question: The code enforcer is telling me that I need a UL 300 certified hood. He said that since my the hood that I bought at an auction is used, then it probable isn’t UL 300 certified. He said it would have a sticker on it if it is. Well I looked it over and there is no sticker at all but my ansel system that I have has a sticker that says UL listed. Is there a difference between UL listed and UL 300 certified? Would my ansel system that says that is meets UL listed standards on it be considered UL 300 certified? Also, I’m also confused on whether he might be talking about the ansel system having to be UL 300 certified or both the hood and the ansel system? I’ve searched on the internet for just hoods themselves that are UL 300 certified and haven’t had any luck. The only results that come up are the hoods with the ansul systems that are ul 300. The only certifications that I have seen associated with just the hoods themselves are ETL and NSF. So basically my question to anyone that has experience with this, is the code enforcer referring to my hood having to be UL 300 certified or my Ansul system that is going in the hood, or both?

Sorry for such a long post. I will be going back tomorrow and asking these same questions to the code enforcer to find out exactly what they are looking for. I just wanted to find out ahead of time if anyone on here who has been through this knows? I’ve opened 2 other shops before in a different county and never had to deal with any building permits or any of this other stuff. I was lucky, I just had to put my equipment in, get health permit, fire equipment inspection, insurance, etc. and I was good to go. I didn’t think from my previous experiences since this was already a restaurant, that is would be any different. That’s what I get for thinking! Lol. I guess I’ll be paying my FOOL’S TAX now for not finding out ahead of time. Next time I’ll know! Thanks in advance for any help you guys can give me.
 
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Are you in suffolk or where in NY? I went through this last year and he cant tell you what hood to use thats up 2 the fire marshall. But there going to make you get a engineer to draw up the hood and ansul system submit plans and so on… If they feel you started w/out permits there gonna make it real hard on you gauranteed another 6 months of waiting, 2months for the building dept. , 2months fire marshall 2 months for health department at least
 
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I did what you are doing 4 years ago. I moved into a restaurant that had closed down. I also didnt get a building permit because all I was doing was painting and fixing up. (Ok I built a wall and moved some electrical but it was all done before they even knew i was in) I also added a hood in the same place as the one that was in the old restaurant. I didnt have to get a thing I only had to have the fire supression system put in by a licensed installer and than have it inspected now I am up in Canada where things may be different but I cant see why you cant paint etc. I would fight that part of it for sure. As far as the hood goes I just had my local sheet metal fabricater make mine and we bought the filters for it and were good to go
 
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Hi Roger:

I do not wish to discourage you but there follows our experience in equipping many pizza shops.

When a new operator moves into a facility they are required to obtain an occupancy permit. That opens up a great can of worms. The Building, Health and Fire inspectors will all require you to bring the location up to the latest codes.

Most always you will be required to submit detailed plans showing what you intend to do, and what equipment you will use. All the equipment you install will be required to meet the current standards of the governing agency.

It is in vogue now to require that the plans submitted are sealed by a registered architect.

Yes, hoods are under the regulations of the building department They may or may not require fire protection as the national code does not require fire protection for pizza ovens. The local fire Marshall can require a fire protection system even if the building inspector does not. The health department will require that all equipment used meets N.S.F. requirements. The fact that the Fire suppression has a certification number does not indicate that the hood is certified. You will also find that the hood will be required to meet
N.F.P. A. code and N.S.F. regulations.

Most used hoods will not meet current building departments standards. It is only fairly recently that hoods are being required to be certified by U.L. or E.T.L. Certification by either of those testing entities certifies that the hood in question will perform up to code requirements at the exhaust rate it is certified at.

Recognize also, that you will be required to bring back into your building an amount of air equal to the amount exhausted. That is make up air. Note that certified hoods, depending on design can often require 75% less make up air than the same size hoods that are not certified.

Unfortunately we are running up against this problem with used hoods again and again. If an operator does not have all the pertinent paper work and certification covering the hood he possibly will not be allowed to use it.
Some times, if the certification of the hood cannot be determined, the inspector may allow it to be used as an uncertified hood if it meets NFPA and NSF standards. What then often happens is the exhaust requirements for a non certified hood of the size being installed are so high that a prohibitively expensive, to buy and operate, make up air unit is required.

The extent of enforcement is determiner by your local agency. Some are more stringent than others. The locals have the option of establishing stricter codes than the national ones.

George Mills
 
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I needed stamped hood plans, OK’d by building AND Fire dept.
Installation inspected by both too. And I needed to have a certified installer for the hood (for “fire-wrapping” the duct from the hood to the roof).

I’m thinking you might be OK with a certified Ansul system - but you’re going to need an engineer to draw plans that specify the hood you already have.
If you use someone they KNOW as your engineer, that might smooth things through…
 
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Oh man, this thread brings back some bad memories. I would definately look to a General Contractor that is familiar with restaurant construction and has experience dealing with your local municipalities. Inexperience and “lack of connections” may end up costing you much more in both time and money. Good luck.
 
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MM:
I needed stamped hood plans, OK’d by building AND Fire dept.
Installation inspected by both too. And I needed to have a certified installer for the hood (for “fire-wrapping” the duct from the hood to the roof).
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The duct is already ran from the ceiling to the roof and and an exhaust fan is already in place. I will just need to put the hood in place and attach it to the duct that is already there. My hood is the same size as the one that used to be there so hopefully the make up air requirements are the same. Do you guys know if there is a difference between UL listed and UL 300? My ansul system says UL listed on but it does not have a 300 on it.

My main question is do they make hoods (just the hood with out the ansul system) that are UL 300 or do you think the code enforcer was referring to the term “hood” as a whole unit (with a UL 300 certified ansul system hooked up to it)?

Thanks again for all of your suggestions so far. I appreciate it.
 
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up23:
Are you in suffolk or where in NY?
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I’m in upstate, NY in Onondaga County. I’m on the outskirts of Syracuse.
 
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u dont need a ansul system for a pizza oven only for an oven or stove where there is oil or grease used.
 
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up23:
u dont need a ansul system for a pizza oven only for an oven or stove where there is oil or grease used.
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I need an ansul system for the fryers and just an exhaust hood (with no ansul) is required for the ovens. I have a large hood so I planned on putting both the fryers and the ovens under it.
 
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UL 300, a new standard for testing that mandates tougher and more realistic fire tests for fryers, ranges, griddles, certain type of broilers and newly added woks.

The manufacturers of these kitchen fire suppression systems had to redesign and re-test all their systems in order to comply with this new testing standard.

UL 300 does not apply to the hood but to the fire system.

Please note that though you have a fan and a duct that does not insure that those items will be compatible with the hood you install and what units you place under it. Various units of equipment call for various CFMs to be exhausted. The final CFM will determine the duct size. the size of the hood alone does not determine CFM.

George Mills
 
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thepassionofthecrust:
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up23:
u dont need a ansul system for a pizza oven only for an oven or stove where there is oil or grease used.
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In TN you do. As a matter of fact you need the heads pointing directly in to the box.
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Reply: The national code, if read closely, does not require fire suppression systems for pizza ovens. The local building code can require It or the local Fire Marshall can require it as they have authority to set more stringent rules than those required by the national code.

I do not know of there ever has been a fire in a pizza oven. Does any one out there know of one?

George Mills
 
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roger I live in jefferson county and for pizza ovens you only need a type 2 hood but with you putting the fryers under it your opening a hole can of worms once you get the code people in there they will find all kinds of things wrong and you will get a different reply from every one that comes in
 
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Never seen a fire in a pizza oven - but I HAVE seen an ANSUL system shut down a pizzeria. Several times.
I was required to install an ansul system over my oven.
The Fire inspector was talking about having the spray directed right into the oven, but apparently in my city, they only require that if it’s a conveyor. Mine just covers the general area, and also the burners over my regular stove that’s in there too.
Basically, you gotta do what the building inspectors and/or fire department says you gotta do.
My hood PLANS had to be engineered, architected, signed, stamped, and approved by the city Building Department AND the Fire Department.
 
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mar1812:
roger I live in jefferson county and for pizza ovens you only need a type 2 hood but with you putting the fryers under it your opening a hole can of worms once you get the code people in there they will find all kinds of things wrong and you will get a different reply from every one that comes in
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I’m actually putting the fryers and the ovens under a type I hood.

I talked to the two code enforcement officers and they said that I could put both the fryers and the ovens under the type I hood (with ul 300 ansul system) as long as the hood meets the specifications of the ovens (needs to extend 18" past both sides and front and start 6’ off of the floor).
 
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