If you deliver a large one topping pizza and 20 wings with a 2 liter bottle of soda, how much did it cost you as an owner of the shop. While the order total was 24.99 it took 15 minutes to prepare and 2 people to cook it, the 15 mins my driver waited for the food to cook and then it took him another 15 minutes to deliver it, the pizza cost me 3.45 to make and the wings cost 6.00 and the 2 liter cost me .87 cents , I paid the 2 cooks 2.00 each to make the food oh wait one of them gets .25 cents more an hr so he cost me lets see what is .25/4 hmm ok well its 2.00 just for arguments sake and the light and gas bill for 15 mins is equal to about the cost of a soda so lets say 2.00 just to be safe the insurance on the pizza shop for 15 min is about half of 1 cent so lets just say 2.00 then i have to pay comp ins. for 2 employees oh wait 3 but 2 at 15 min and 1 at 30 min and then there is unemployment and ss taxes so lets just say 2.00 for each employee at 15 min and 1.00 at the driver rate of 3.85 cause he just a tipped employee so ok it cost me so it cost 19.32 to send that 24.99 order out I made 5.67 on that one damn i need to raise some more money some how lets take back .50 of the drivers delivery fee and now I made 5.50 thats what we will do. 
just my attempt at comedy. I am a little tired of being told I don’t know what I am talking about oh wait I mean drivers don’t know what they are talking about. Without the delivery driver all you would have is a restaurant or deli and who wants to be a restaurateur anyway. :mrgreen: more comedy I better stop before I bust a gut laughing
Yes, that was hilarious. You should think about a career in comedy if you ever decide to leave the business world…
If you worked for me, in the 1/2 hour you worked: you woulda made $4.00 in wages, $1.50 reimbursement, $3.00 tip. $8.50 for 1/2 hour of work. Not too shabby.
A couple of things… I would love to find this place where business insurance at 1/2 cent every 15 min of operation…so say 12 hours a day at 365 + $87.60/ year. I am in! Also, does this imaginary owner pay his other utilities…phone, garbage and water? Does he own his property? Lease? Triple Net terms? Oh… did he advertise for this order to get phoned in or did the drivers take care of that also? Geez I hope nothing ever goes down in this shop… they are running at such numbers that there is zero being held aside for capital improvements. I feel sorry for this imaginary owner and all of his now unemployed workers as he store is now CLOSED! :shock: This is so not a laughing matter!
and of course in this ever so funny side splitting world:
- the food magic’s itself to the shop for free, no delivery charges!
- the food is stored in a cold room and refrigeration units that were free
- the food is prepped by the same elves who used to make shoes for free for the shoe maker at night
- the pies are prepared with utensils that were provided free and prepared on the makelines and prep tables that cost nothing using pans/screens that were free
- they are cooked in ovens that don’t cost 10’s of thousands of dollars to buy and never breakdown or need cleaning so there are no maintenance costs
- are cut by magic on free cut-tables and stored on hot racks that were provided by free
- carried in hot bags that don’t cost anything, that never get lost or damaged or suffer wear and tear and by staff who wear free uniforms
- the shop is always at a perfect temperature all year due to the air-conditioning and extract systems that came free with all the other free equipment
- the business gets free accountancy and payroll support to pay the staff
- the greedy owner are normally so wealthy that they don’t need to borrow money from the bank, and even if they do its not a problem as the banks love them so much they don’t charge any interest or banking facilties, just like the credit card companies who give them free terminals and certainly don’t charge for processing these transactions.
- no one pays taxes in this magic world and any profit which the business makes is doubled up by the IRS to make it that much nice
- the free equipment and building don’t need insurance, alarms or cctv as in this magic world there is no theft, crime or fire. There is no need for electrical or gas or equipment testing or fire extinguishers and as they are not needed they don’t need servicing each year and if they did the electrical works for free as does the fire company.
- indeed in this magic world equipment works forever without maintenance or replacements ever being needed
- the pizza’s taste so good that word of mouth spreads, the shop doesn’t need any signage or marketing materials but if the business owner does need menus and distribution well don’t worry coz in this magical land this is all free as well.
- customers order online over the internet which of course is free as everything on the internet is free
- other customers order over the phone and the CSR’s take the using the free handsets and record them on the free computers using free software, all of which never break down so no need for warranties, repair or replacement. Computers auto update to the latest hardware and software each year so there’s no costs of keeping up to date
- employee’s are already experts in everything, need no training and never make mistakes, food never goes out of date and there is a plentiful supply in the magic walk in so no one needs to come in early to make dough, or go on emergency runs like normal shops. There are never any employee issues so time is never spent on these issues which in other world would cost the business money
- credit card chargebacks never happen, checks never bounces and best of all fake money come pre-marked with the word FAKE painted across it in big letters so the drivers and counter staff don’t accept it and the till is never short.
- no one ever places prank calls, drivers never get lost, mistakes never happen and therefore the shop never has to do bad orders or remakes
- no problems, no hidden costs, no taxes, no fees, no accidents, no losses
- at the end of the night the manager utters the magic words and shop cleans itself without any hassle all the while the greedy owner is off on his yacht in the Bahamas’s as he doesn’t need a return on his investment he’s just content knowing that his employee’s have a job.
Ah yes, the magic life of a pizza shop…its such a laugh
Wizzle didn’t your shop come with a leprechaun? 
Who takes care of your unicorns? 
I actually thought about listing the 100’s+ things that can go wrong with a driver’s car, but why whine about it? Your costs are what they are. If you cannot pay your employees a fair wage and still stay in business with the countless other costs, there is something wrong with the business.
I guess my arrogant self…as I have been called here… would suggest all drivers lease a new Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla for $149 - $169 per month. Think of the possibilities. 35+mpg… full warranty… no repairs out of pocket! This is easily affordable since you will all be saving the thousands that you put into the fuel and maintenance of your current vehicles.
Since nobody else has said it, I will, and I will take all the heat for doing so. Even though I believe in all employees making a decent wage and being compensated for all personal expenses related to their jobs… YOU DELIVER PIZZA! You are an entry level employee no matter how you look at it. Yes there are great delivery drivers and yes there are PLENTY of ones that are not. You are not going to get rich and retire off of DELIVERING PIZZA anytime soon unless you find a bag of money at the bank presidents house that he forgot to bring in off the front porch. Bottom line…if you take away the small handfull of indies that pay this tip-credit pay…which personally I disagree with for you… READ: I SUPPORT YOU FOR THE LAST TIME!.. the big boys are going to do it because YOU, the drivers let them. Stop bitching and whining at us about their practices. It is getting you nowhere fast. Why not get the drivers of the ones that actually do this together and do something useful. By useful I would first find a level headed person to represent all of you because the argument needs to be put forth in a respectable and comprehensive way that has the real facts and not the perceived ones in place. If you start off your argument like you, the drivers, talk on here sometimes, and talk all the time on a few of the other “driver’s boards” out there…you will not be taken seriously by anyone. You all talk a big game when not having to stand up behind any of it. So here it is… stand up or shut up! Sorry… a little blunt for my arrogant self but do something constructive. I mentioned before that we kept the Teamsters Union out of our business of 300+ employees even though they tried every year over and over. Each time 10-15 employees that whined about everything would start it up again and bring in voter cards and so on… and everytime the other 285+ would stand back and look at their pay, benefits, bonuses, vacation, etc… and they would vote and it would usually end up about 10% voting yes. Now we treated our people very well and it showed and still shows. My point is no matter what an employer does or gives, you will always have unhappy workers… having 90-95% happy is a good place to be. If you want to make a difference…get the drivers at the problem companies together and make the point to those companies. It goes nowhere complaining into the internet air that the people that need to hear your reasoning do not even look at. I truely wish you and all the drivers the best.
Hurumph!
I sure wish my stores ran like the ones in the magical world that Wizzle has portrayed…but they’re not. Well said Wizzle! Nothing we say will ever change their minds – so why bother as it is a neverending argument. Their gripes are with their own employers.
2nd Request:
PPG,
- How much do you make per hour?
- How much is your reimbursement per delivery?
- How many deliveries are you doing per day?
I don’t see any of the owners on this site ‘whining’ about anything
I don’t see any of the owners on this site questioning the things that can go wrong with a drivers car - far from it.
I don’t see any of the owners on this site saying anything about not being able to pay a fair wage and not being able to remain in business
I don’t see any of the owners on this site saying there is ‘something wrong with the business’
My post was made in answer to the original poster, that there is a plethora of costs that the business needs to take into account. How the business pays for these is TOTALLY up to the business owner. Your ongoing issues with the delivery charge and your insistence that it is in some way a ‘phantom charge’ and simple a way to generate ‘pure free profit’ is argumentative at best. I have tried, reasonably and calmly to give you examples to show that it is a choice the business makes yet you and the original poster insist on making false statements to mis-represent the vast majority of owners on this site.
You have stated that drivers should be paid a fair wage and NO ONE has disagreed.
You have agreed that minimum wage is fair and NO ONE has disagreed.
As far as I know there is no one on here who pays less than MW and no one has stated that they can not pay MW.
Please read the forum rules http://www.pmq.com/tt/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8466. Your (and the original poster) ongoing position of insinuating that the population of this site do no pay a ‘fair wage’, with no evidence to support this (indeed quite the opposite) does not meet the forum rules. You have been asked not to continue doing this but fail to take the advice.
Your first request was removed by the moderators, so I assume they do not want me to answer.
Not They, You.
All im trying to do here is to determine if you are being treated unfairly.
You are right it wasn’t funny. I apologize to everyone here. I took peoples comments the wrong way and was lashing out.It was childish to say the least. Please disregard the personal attacks I may have been making in previous posts if you can. I will never post these types of things again. Seriously I am Sorry if I offended anyone and I am seriously sorry for continuing to stir the pot on delivery, It is tough out there for everyone.I wish everyone the best of luck at whatever they are doing. Sorry again for causing such a ruckus.
Actually, since the 2nd request was not removed, I have no problem answering the question.
The indy shop where I work went sub-min sometime in late 2007- early 2008. I do not know exactly when because I was on hiatus working a different job (unlrelated to the pizza biz). When I went back in 2008, I found out that, although minimum wage (which was the pay before) had gone up, our hourly wage had not. I did not find this out until I received my first check (which is illegal, and the owner and I had a chat about it).
Mileage is $1.25 for each run. The closest deliveries are across the street, and the longest are about 15 miles round trip. The average is about 4-5 miles.
Sometime before I went back, the store implemented a delivery charge of $1, which in the owner’s words “offset the price of gas.” Prior to the charge, the store paid $.75 per run. While I STRESS that mileage reiumbursement is not the delivery charge, in my shop’s case the owner turns the $1 around and adds $.25 per run. This means that, out of pocket, the shop pays $.25 where previously the shop paid $.75. With some (if not most) of the customers believing that the DC=tip, MY tips have been reduced.
To summarize: my shop switched to tip credit, then implemented a delivery charge thereby lowering tips that are needed to attain minimum wage and at the same is time paying less out in mileage (asking the customer to not only tip, but also pay the lion’s share of mileage as well). Is this legal? Apparently so (but we will see). Is this morally correct? Heavens to Betsy no.
Is it the combination of these things that is bothering you? Or each and every one?
If there were no delivery charge, would you still have a problem with the switch to tip credit?
Are you currently making above MW (total wage + tips)?
What parts of this are you questioning the legality of?
I work day shift, so sometimes it is actually close to min when slow. Other times are much better.
The entire combination seems to be the “screw the driver package.”
I am especially questioning tip credit. Not to call myself the PPGster, but the law claims that employers cannot share/take a part of a tip credit employee’s tips, yet to use tip credit itself, they are doing just that. The law makes no sense.
Then harass the ones who made the law, not the ones following it!
I disagree. The law says that you must be paid MW - and the wage is calculated by combining hourly rate and tips. No where does it say that the employer must pay from their own funds the entire amount.
You seem to believe that the employer is sharing/taking tips and then returning them to you in the form of wages. I can understand how you think that - but you are wrong, obviously. Otherwise “tip-credit” would not even exist.