Re-Thinking Delivery Charges Off Topic

Re: Re-Thinking Delivery Charges

I’ve rarely heard a driver complain about a $0 tip, and if they do, i remind them of their reimbursement. It ends the conversation. If i were to drop the delivery charge it may increase the tip, or may not.
Like someone said above, its needed to offset costs, for driver and the store.

From my experience, I suggest to increase your tip:

  1. Be courteous at the door
  2. Have a treat for Fido
  3. Have little doughballs for the kids.

Re-Thinking Delivery Charges

Piper you hit it on the nose… they want to make a career out of driving mrs daisy…I mean pizza around. When I worked as a driver in hs I made about 75-100 a night… tax free… on top of the $1 per run and my wage…that’s when minimum was like 3.65 back then…1987… or close too it. Yeah gas was under a dollar a gallon… but even taking that into consideration… it was good money. I was actually standing up for the drivers here and I believe they should get a decent base wage and the delivery charge should go too them to cover personal expenses. On the flip side… when you are back and standing around doing nothing… get off your ass and help out! You want to make more money… stop complaining and make yourself an asset to my operation not a pain in my asset! Did any of the drivers take any risk starting to work for you? Do they have their homes and savings and futures tied up in the success or failure of your shop? NO! Write me the big check and open a driver’s pizza shop thats only delivery and all the drivers don’t do anything but drive… new Merecedes of course… and oh wait…who’s making the pizza? Sorry RG that your post has strayed… the drivers have a valid point they just do not know how to convey it in a way that does not make them sound like they do. No offense drivers… believe it or not we (owners) are not out to get you. You are a part of our operation but it is OUR operation. You have the right to leave anytime you want. We have the right to ask you too leave anytime we want also. Work with the management and owners… sit down with them and discuss your concerns in the proper way… using the language and comments that we see on other boards does not help your situation. We understand it is your place to vent…as this is also ours at times… but do not bring your venting into ours… this will go nowhere. PPG2270 this is not directed towards you but all drivers in general… I just wanted to clarify that as I am not here to make offense towards anyone. It is counter productive. On a side note… where is the pizza shop that does 700k a weekend? That’s like 25000+ pizzas a weekend and $36mil in sales just being open 2-3 days a week. I will be opening a shop right next door to take their overflow…anyone in with me? :mrgreen:

Re: Re-Thinking Delivery Charges

This question is for drivers not owners

What are all the costs to offer delivery of pizzas?

Re: Re-Thinking Delivery Charges the off topic part

I am curious what type of money the inside people are making compared to the drivers. Lets say you have cooks making $10-12 an hour and drivers that make $7.75 plus the $2.00 or whatever delivery fee…and their tips. Realistically if you deliver 4 pizza an hour and get $2 tip per pizza… you have now made $23.75. Lets take out $4-5 for gas and a couple of dollars for your “vehicle maintenance” savings… I mean the oil change not the engine rebuild or supercharger fund that I actually think alot of the drivers think they are entitled too… and what are you left with as far as an hourly wage? Hmm… well giving the drivers the advantage here… at least $15 and I am betting that if you average your hours worked with your actual tips… you probably make over $20 an hour and alot of that tax free. So to keep hearing about pay the drivers what the cooks make…how about you pay the cooks what the drivers make? There is one underlying issue that has not been mentioned. This is the same problem that effects servers… strippers… and delivery people. You deal with small bill cash pay as part of your wage. You also spend it as so. What is spending a handful of $1’s and $5’s…it’s not like blowing a couple of hundred at the casino is it? Wait…yes it is! This is a problem that will never go away and for most… they just do not realize how much they make because it is in small amounts and there is no w-2 or pay stub that verifys the amount for them. I have a funny side story about this that still amazes me to this day. Back in 2000 a friend of mine managed a strip club in Florida. It was and still is a very large and successful operation. They have over 50 dancers working a night and probably double that on busy ones, His girls complained about the same…not enough money. etc…etc…etc… He set up an in-house bank system for the girls to turn in their tips after work each night. Whatever amount they wanted. No interest… just make a deposit and money was logged and kept safe and available for them whenever they needed to access it. One girl that really stood out was amazing. She was a mother of 3 from Minnesota that flew down twice a month to work 3-4 day weekends and other events. She put money into her account for over two years and then told them she was going to spend more time with her family and not be flying back anymore. She never really asked or kept track of the amount in her account. She asked Shawn for her money…he laughed and said do you have any idea how much you have saved in the last two years…she said she hoped she had $20k in there…he laughed and told her she was going to be very happy…she had over $127,000 in her account. Funny thing is she kept dancing for 3 more years. The whole point is you do not know how much your are actually making most of the time. be careful complaining about you being underpaid when you might be making more than anyone else there… :idea:

Re: Re-Thinking Delivery Charges the off topic part

What gets me is the drivers who get on this forum and bleat how the owners are ripping them off when they don’t know the facts.
I will give some facts about our delivery costs.
We charge upwards of $5.50 for delivery of which the driver gets upwrds of $2.50 - $3 on a $6.50 delivery fee, $3.50 on $7.50 delivery fee and $4 on a $8 delivery fee. As a dirty capitalist pig I keep the rest.
We pay our drivers $16 per hour but they prep, do dishes, clean and anything else that is needed to keep them busy for the time I pay them. Again I am expoliting them by making them work for the whole time they are being very well paid.
When they go out on delivery for a $5.50 fee they are normally gone for 15 minutes or more, so it costs me a minimum of $4 in hourly rate, PLUS the $2.50 delivery fee - a total cost of $6.50. As a capitalist pig who rips off drivers I am losing a minimum of $1.50 for supplying a delivery service. Plus they get the odd tip, but not that often as we are not in a tipping society, but some appreciaitive customers tip $10 - $15. I forget to ask if they get tips - gee this capitalist pig owner is missing the opportunity to take that off them to cover the loss on the delivery. They get their pay but I don’t cover costs so why shouldn’t they give me the tip to cover the loss, or am I thinking too much like a driver who doesn’t take in the other’s side of the story?
To all the poor bleating drivers out there who think they know everything about how a business is run and assume every owner is ripping them off, try walking in the other person’s shoes.
You wouldn’t have the guts to put everything you have on the line to try and make a living working 60 - 80 hours a week for probably less than drivers make. You think that evry customer HAS to tip you for taking a pizza from the shop to them . WHY SHOULD THEY ?? What right have you to demand you get tips? What right have you to badmouth and generalise the whole trade of owners as rip off merchants.
Count your self lucky you don’t live here because we can’t stand whingers and if you ever tried to bad mouth people and make defamatory comments like that driver who got banned ( his name should never be mentioned again in case I puke) you would find some one giving you a swift knuckle sandwich.
If you don’t like what you are being paid then don’t do it. There are plenty of others out there that us fat, greedy, capitalist pigs can rip off.
Am I pi$$ed about the continual bleating and whinging of drivers? YOU BET !!!

Re: Re-Thinking Delivery Charges the off topic part

and funny how two ‘new’ driver ‘appear’ on TT both of whom register on the same day (Friday) and both of whom take the same stance and approach of Gregster i.e. hijacking a post about whether or not a business should charge for delivery or make it free and turn it into a driver wage issue again!! What co-incidence!

Re: Re-Thinking Delivery Charges the off topic part

Where do I even begin? Let’s first set one notion aside: The job of an insider and the job of a driver are completely different entities. The insider is not using his car as the driver (in most cases) is. The insider is not out in foul weather looking for non-illuminated houses and address numbers taking the very realistic chance of being shot on site.

As has been discussed ad nauseum, the mileage reimbursement is not a part of a driver’s wages, and cannot be taken into consideration when totaling an hourly wage.

You ask why customers should tip? The answer is simple: The government and the shops feel that the driver is tipped employee, and are (in most cases) paid as such. Therefore, the tip is no longer a bonus for good work; it is an expected part of a driver’s income.

Here is some food for thought: I do not feel that the shops are ripping off drivers on an individual basis. However, the laws that are applied (tip credit) should never have been allowed to be applied to drivers. Minimum wage works for me. Anything less is disrespectful to your shop’s at the door representative.

As far as leaving is concerned, I did just that. But that does not mean that my experiences should not be shared.

Re: Re-Thinking Delivery Charges the off topic part

It truly is a coincidence. I have been reading Gregster’s posts for some time now, and do indeed share many of his ideas, which are true. I am slowly learning the forum, but as far as hijacking is concerned, it is not intentional. I have quoted previous posts and moved the conversation along. I speak only what I feel is the truth, and if that is too much for some folks to handle, I will not apologize. I will apologize for being new to the forum and therefore messing up on which threads which to post, but not for my message. I speak the truth, and I do so without reservation.

The costs of delivery are irrelevant. If you cannot pay a fair wage and maintain costs associated with overhead (of all types) the management scheme is poor and you should not be in business.

Re: Re-Thinking Delivery Charges the off topic part

PPG2270 take some more time and read the posts. I deducted for mileage but you can not have it both ways. You can not complain about your work environment and not getting paid enough and then ask us not to include your tips as wages and that your are a tipped based employee… you are confusing me on if you even get paid? This description of insider and driver is a load of crap. You are an employee and that’s the bottom line. I still have yet to find a single operation that pays driver’s below minimum wage. Does your employer? If so…why would anyone work for them? Let me sound like a greedy owner here for a minute… You work for me and your primary job is too deliver pizza. I will pay you $8 an hour and $2 per delivery to cover gas and expenses. You get to keep any and all tips you receive. I also expect you to work in the shop while not on deliveries. Remember you are still on my clock making above minimum wage while here. If you want to make more money in the base pay… earn it. Show me you are an asset and make me want to justify paying you $10 an hour because I know you are a team player and can handle day to day situations if I am not babysitting the whole operation. Maybe if gas goes up significantly…I up the delivery payout to $3 a delivery and eat the difference instead of raising my prices. But I do cover more of your out of pocket expenses. I would love to have a discussion with the owner of the shop you work for and see his/her impression about this “insider/driver” job description that you live by. I am just not buying it. It is an unrealistic dream idea that does not exsist. You are not an OTR truck driver. Wait…even they have to manually unload entire semi’s full of product from time to time. They complain about…but they also get it done. You really need to make the outside world respect your position and not just put you in a pool of whining complainers. As far as the safety issue of you getting shot or attacked…well statistically I bet there are more robberies of the actually pizza stores than pizza drivers. Yes there have been recent attacts and a killing that is horrible and never acceptable…but that also happens to the innocent cooks and owners that work at the shop. It’s all just part of doing business in the world we live in these days. :expressionless:

PPG, if you don’t mind me asking,

How much do you make per hour at your store?
What is your reimbursement?
How many deliveries do you get per day & the kinda hours you put in?


Re: Re-Thinking Delivery Charges

I would like to get the driver’s perspective on what their definition of this “fair” wage is? Break it down for me please. I would like to hear what the numbers are that you as a driver would say… I make a fair wage and get paid accordingly for the deliveries.

Re: Re-Thinking Delivery Charges

Fair enough, but then why should any owner consider the effect of a delivery charge on your tips to be relevant?

Re: Re-Thinking Delivery Charges the off topic part

You share his style, his posting habits and despite being told by several members, an uncanny ability to take at least one thread about ‘delivery charge’ into a discussion about minimum wage and tipping. As you say you are slowly learning so to help speed it up maybe stick to the subject being discussed - that would help.

No one is asking you to apologize. You say YOU speak the truth? and when other post a different perspective they are speaking… what? Just because YOU say something is true doesn’t make it so.

By all means contribute to the topic in hand but we’ve already had someone try to push mw/tipping issues down our throats and they’re no longer here. Hopefully that advice will help you learn more quickly as well.

Re: Re-Thinking Delivery Charges

OK I see that this is a sore subject for some. However the 700000 in sales is an annual figure smart guy and sorry if you are unable to realize those types of numbers in your market. I clearly stated where I was from in the post read a little more closely. On a side note I have also been a cook, a manager, a partner and am close to opening as a an owner once again. I just have a ton of delivery experience. 400 deliveries per day x 3 days per week = 1200 x 52 = 62400 x a modest 10.00 avg delivery ticket = 624000 dollars annual sales from delivery. Now as I stated previously, delivery is obviously an asset to both the owner operator and the driver.

Re: Re-Thinking Delivery Charges

we were taking over 400 deliveries per day (with a 1 dollar delivery charge going directly to the driver) on the weekend generating upwards of 700,000 in sales alone

Maybe we could borrow a wanderese translator so it would be clear to us when you are talking about weekend sales and annual sales.

and sorry if you are unable to realize those types of numbers in your market.

Is that your attempt of trying to flex your muscles? If so, you need to hit the gym for a while!

Re: Re-Thinking Delivery Charges

ok ok sorry one and all it was just a comment on the overwhelming responses of to charge or not to charge the amounts don’t matter. as for my original post i thought i was clear when I stated 400 per day fri sat sun i think it got removed as I was typing additional info. To me it was clear 1200 per weekend oh well it does not diminish the fact that delivery benefits both the owner operators and the delivery driver which was my point in the first place. And I don’t need a gym. They were not my dollars just the driver there at the time of astounding growth. And I am thru posting on this subject I thought i was being constructive in my original post and then got blasted for the numbers I put in they were just to make the point owner operators benefit from delivery whether their is a fee or not that they receive.

Re: Re-Thinking Delivery Charges

Opps my bad… I guess my market is just not up to some. LMAO That is a sales figure that an indie in all but the smallest of markets should be able to hit. The last market I came from…was employing over 300 employees working for a company…oh… our family business… that had nationwide sales of over $100 million. No it was not pizza but we were and are a foodservice provider. I guarantee our products are in your town and would be surprised if you have not eaten them before. So I do have some idea of dealing with employees, wage issues, UNIONS!.. have kept the Teamsters out since we opened in 1986… why… because we treat and pay our employees accordingly and well.

Now not wanting to blast you or anyone else… or misread anything… If you read all of my posts I think the driver’s would see how many comments I have added in my posts to support pay and benefits. That being said i also believe anything other than giving some of these poster’s a $20 per delivery payout would be less than acceptable. If you have truely worked, managed, and partnered (owned?) any type of business you of all people should understand the big picture. Most employees have zero clue as too the actual expense to run any type of business, They only see what is in their face and the numbers they think they know. I wish more people knew the real costs of ownership. Like my mother returning glass coke bottles for csash to buy groceries with when we first started? Almost loosing our house the first 5 years of trying to get something going? The fact that my father drove back and forth to Iowa every weekend for 4 years while we lived in Chicago…you know that little market… I wish it had all been as easy as delivering a pizza! :shock:

I can not believe I got sucked into this by posting to start with, This is an aggrevating discussion because it is useless… it is “drivers” that think they know it all and the rest of the world that knows nothing. Wait… I think the owners still sign your checks pretty darn well? :?:

Re: Re-Thinking Delivery Charges

Wow! There is “free and clear” money to be made? No overhead, taxes or anything? I think we’re all going to be in trouble if these guys ever get around to opening their own shops.

Re: Re-Thinking Delivery Charges

It is quite unfair to lump all “drivers” into any category, especially the know it all category. If I knew it all, two things would definitely happen:

  1. The structure of the industry would be such that everyone felt 100% happy to be working in it.

  2. We would all get along.

Sadly, I do not know it all