So, the story. I will try my best to tell it without a bias and let you all decide if I am out of line or them…
I start to look for used ovens in December. Respond to an ad on EBay re double stack of MM360’s.
Couple of emails, couple of phone calls, end up placing an order on Feb 8 this year. Great deal, full refurb units, modulating gas valve upgrade, $10,500 for the double stack.
I’m up here in Canada, they are in Phoenix. I tell the salesperson I am still securing lease on new location and will confirm towards end of month. Give them 75% deposit on Feb 23. Told ovens will ship
april 6th.
I visit the plant while in Phoenix on vacation. Salesperson no longer works there. Handled by somebody else.The web page is a LOT more professional and impressive than the plant. First kinda inkling all might not be quite as expected.
April 3rd I call my salesperson #2. She is no longer there. After quite a long hold I am looked after by salesperson #3. We exchange emails confirming what I ordered, exactly what refurbished means vs recon, and confirm ship date of April 6th.
Remember, I am up in Canada, they have many thousands of my money.
April 6th, i call for tracking number, put on hold and forget. I call back, “everybody in meeting”.
This escalates to nobody returning my calls, period.
I ask for the owner, Marcus. Asked who’s calling?, on hold then told " He’s not available"…
I’ll not bore you with the numerous messages left, times I was hung up on, left on hold for ten minutes etc etc…
I send an email threatening to cancel order, call the BBB, post here and other boards. I get a call from Marcus. You should note this is the only time he will ever speak to me…
My ovens will be shipped tomorrow I’m told. He will take pictures of them on the pallet and send them to me. Yeah right… Of course that was just more lies…
April 23 I get an email after many many unanswered calls saying will ship out on 25th/26th.
This is followed by a string of other broken promises. Maybe my favourite lie was when I was told they hadn’t shipped them as one motor was bad when they test fired them.
When I pointed out I had an email confirming that EVERY MOVING PART, WIRING and all controls are replaced with new, didn’t bat an eye before telling me the new motor was bad. just got off the phone with shipping company. They have not picked up my ovens.
I have tried my best to give you ALL the fact’s, not just a one sided story. Bottom line is once they got my money it became impossible to actually speak TO A SALESPERSON OR THE OWNER.
Best part is they had the gall to call me a couple of days ago from the accounting department asking for the balance of payment!!

Re: Seller to be avoided

Wow Boatnut, I really hate to hear that you had a bad experience with Marcus’ company.

The only thing that I can add is that my experience was 100% the opposite.

Marcus delivered my oven personally and was available through his personal cell phone number to aid my electrical contractors with installation.

Once again I really hate that you have had a bad experience and I hope that your issues get resolved.

Re: Seller to be avoided

Hmmm…what do ya’ll think? I think maybe Goodmank oughtta’ maybe hand over that cell phone number! :smiley:

Re: Seller to be avoided

Glad it worked out for you. I mean that.
I’m going to hazard a guess that was some time ago??
Do me a favour, try calling them and leaving a message for Marcus.You will have to leave a message because he doesn’t actually talk to customers anymore. Maybe even ask for his cell number. (The cell number attached to his old posts here is not in service). See what response you get. I would be very interested to see if you get a different reception.

Re: Seller to be avoided

His cell phone is permanently call forwarded to the office.
I believe Cell is 602-447-0304.

Re: Seller to be avoided

Amazing what you can find with the google god…

Seems like possibly there is some kinda trend here?.. ( I paid with credit card ).

For the record, all I want is what I was told I would get, when I was told I would get it,
open communication about any issues effecting my order and somebody to actually answer the phone or return calls. I really don’t think that’s expecting too much is it?

Re: Seller to be avoided

Better scroll to the end of this article to get the only feedback sent in about Marcus…

Karl Stoneabout 6 months ago
“It’s funny to hear Mr. Bramhall preach about good business ethics when he is one of the bad ones. This guy takes product in, has a metal fabricator make parts to fix up his ovens for sale, and then stiffs the metal fabricator to the tune of almost 20k.
This guy is a real saint. Preach on Marcus!”…

I have yet to find any positives about this guy on the google god…

Re: Seller to be avoided

The fact that you paid with a credit card is a good thing. If you had paid with a check you would have to whistle for your money.

Can I assume you have already contacted your credit card issuer? If not you should stop reading this and do that immediately. The fact that the goods were never delivered should be enough but you might want to provide them links to information on these other scams and copies of key emails. You should get your money back promptly.

Re: Seller to be avoided

We had CLOSE to a similar incident when trying to purchase an oven with him when he was doing business as PESI about 4-5 years ago. After a month of discussions regarding the shipping date, etc. all of a sudden we were told that it was going to ship out in 1 day and they had to have our money immediately. We sent check by mail that very same day and in a follow up conversation the next day found out that it was going to be delayed a month. We stopped payment on our check immediately and glad we did (something just didn’t add up at that point). After that we couldn’t get a hold of people, the salesman had left the company, Marcus wouldn’t return phone calls. Hmmmm…sounds very similar to the poster’s story.

Re: Seller to be avoided

So, they have actually shipped my ovens last night. Confirmed with carrier they have them. The promised pics just arrived as well. Most amusing is all of a sudden, my salesperson WILL now talk to me on the phone. They want money now lol…
Of course, not quite all good though…
The carrier is missing a bunch of documentation so shipment being held in warehouse.
Even though it appears I will be getting what I ordered and the pricing is excellent, I would gladly pay the extra to shop elsewhere next time.
I’ll update you all on the outcome as it unfolds.

Re: Seller to be avoided

This sucks i dont know how so many people have bad times with shimmer, mine was great!

so i bought a used set of 360wb ovens on Craigslist for 4k double stack that were missing one set of oven end caps and i could not find them anywhere other than MM for 3000 new. Marcus had then for 900 shipped used. i called paid with CC talked to marcus they said it would ship out on monday the same day i paid them. I didnt hear anythingfrom them, so i called them on Wednsday and they said that they had not shipped yet, i got a little worried cause i had heard about shimmmer having issues shipping on time. I left a message for marcus he called me right back and said sorry we got busy they are shipping out now. I said fine. I got a tracking number the next morning and They OVERNIGHTED my package for free cause i was upset it did not ship out the same day they said it would

Now keep in mind this is a big package like 50x25x6 and 60lbs, when i saw the overnight tracking i thought i was getting scammed, i was like now way in hell they spent 400 bucks on shipping these overnight to me, sure enough i had them in good shape on thursday morning at 10am.

I do have marcus’s cell number its not a 602 number its 206 769 **** ( i cant remeber the rest its on a old phone that i cant find, the only reason i know its 206 769 is cause thats the first part of my nuimber so its hard to forget lol) and he helped me get my ovens going on the phone on a sunday at like 9pm for free, i called him like 6 times that day and he never got mad or upset, infact he walked me threw everything in order to fix my ovens to get them insatlled on monday.

Now i totally understand how pist the other people are that get the run around and never get ovens and parts for months and months, If that was me, i would fly my ass down to shimmmer and put the fear of god into someone over 10k, i would be PIST.

But my experiance with shimmmer was great and i guess they just pick and choose who to be nice to or there is some other reason that they dont tell the customer and it pisses people off.

Re: Seller to be avoided

Regardless of the “progress”, immediately do as Bodega suggested…CALL YOUR CREDIT CARD COMPANY NOW. At least they will be on notice that a potential problem exists, and you will be on record before the time period for claims will have expired. It costs you nothing to explain your situation.

Re: Seller to be avoided

You only have limited time to dispute credit card charge…

Re: Seller to be avoided

I appreciate all of those that have supported me. I am disappointed about the attitude to “stop payment” on equipment that has been shipped or received by a customer. If someone orders equipment and it is delayed, you may request a FULL refund. Shimmmer would never keep your money.

Be advised if you receive your equipment and it is signed for, denying the charge is fruitless. If the pizza deliver guy shows up late, do you call in the charge to reverse it after he gave you the pizza?

If there is damage in shipping I advise to mark the damage on the freight bill. I have had many of customers receive a shipment and do not indicate any damage; even when they saw that 12" gash in the side of their oven, and then call us to replace it. We will go to “bat” for you if there is damage but you need to be our “eyes” when you receive it, and properly document the damage.

The refurbish equipment business is the same as new production for an OEM. We stock hundreds of pieces of equipment(ovens, mixers, sheeters, etc.) and pull or “ear mark” the equipment as the deposit is received. We depend on hundreds of vendors to supply us with the parts to refurbish or recondition the equipment you ordered. Most of the time when a delay is experience it is caused by a vendor. Maxitrol is an example. They are normally a month or longer out to fill an order; I think this is what delayed the originally poster. Order an MM oven they are out 4-6 weeks, maybe?

I understand the frustration of expecting a piece of equipment on a date, but if circumstances dictate that the piece of equipment can not be released, we will not release it. Such conditions would be missing parts, not firing or operating correcting; basically not up to our standards. I have yet to see a post that said " I received a piece of equipment I was dissatisfied." or Shimmmer did not stand behind it. It is less hassle and cost if we make sure you are receiving the product you ordered and not something that was pushed out the door in your lap. I have had customers have problems when they received their equipment and I personally flew there to rectify the problem.

The post from the visitor to our plant, please come see us again…We have organized and computerized everything. Our fabrication division is operational and our parts department is stocked with over $1M in available inventory. There is no one in the world with the size and scale of the operation here in Phoenix. You are comparing us to who?

I agree trying to get a hold of me, which you can try (206-769-4466) is an effort. I entertain at least 100+ phone calls a day; 7 days a week. They consist of customers, technicians and dealers from across the world. I have over 25 years in this industry and hold multiple patents on equipment. This is the reason why if you can’t reach me the phone it rolls to the office. If you need me and can’t reach me please email me directly; I know it is frustrating and I am trying to employ and train as many possible people to fill the voids to assist everyone out there. I am sure you all have been there with a manager out or short drivers; slapping and sweating cussing yourself why you can’t find competent people. Shimmmer is growing immensely and we offer a quality product at fair prices. Remember, when you are in need of a part or technical assistance on Saturday or a Holiday you could call us and we would be there to assist you. Who else would do that for you?

Re: Seller to be avoided

Mr. Bramhall,

I find your post reasonably professional and well spoken. That said, it appears to me equally unresponsive to the complaints from the original poster in terms of non-responses, a delay in shipping that I would expect YOUR COMPANY should have taken initiative to advise customer of before hand, And that may have happened. I don’t have a clear indication.

I can say that thios post along with I found a rather poorly conceived response in the linked thread mincing business issues with your personal conflicts in responding to a business issue . . . . I would hesitate to business with your company. What very little I have does not inspire confidence and a sense of committment to customer. Again, I have a tiny sample to work from, but I wanted to share my impression with you. It’s not like I would vehemently discourage someone looking to use your services, but if asked would be not committal at the very best.

Re: Seller to be avoided

I think it sucks that these complaints with cant get resolved better between them and the customer, i would not hestitate to use shimmmer again at all.

In fact i try to refer people to them for parts and such.

Who else is going to take the time to help you on a sunday with your broken ass oven, NO ONE…

I hope this customer gets everything worked out with marcus and i look forward to dealing with marcus again and bugging him on sunday when my oven breaks ( Joking marcus)

Re: Seller to be avoided

^^^^^ +1

Re: Seller to be avoided

Disappointed in your customers? Go screw yourself. A simple email would have solved this problem. A defensive post on a public forum is hot the way to do it. Try some humility dude. You are the one who screwed up here, not your customer or people who gave him good advice.

I don’t care about excuses. Growing immensely is not an excuse for service so bad that people come to PMQ for advice about crappy service from your company.

If you don’t answer your phone in the first place, there is no sense in giving out the number and telling someone to take a crap shoot.

Just a last piece of advice, DON’T SELL $H|T YOU CAN’T SHIP. That is a pretty simple rule that will avoid this situation in the future.

Re: Seller to be avoided

Pizzamancer nailed it: Don’t sell things you can’t ship.

You should have an oven completely cleaned up, refurbished or however you are selling it INCLUDING testing BEFORE you sell it to someone. Saying you could not ship because you went to test it and it needed work is just lame. I understand that you want to sell things as soon as you get them assuming that you can fix them up, but that is not a reputable way to do business.

Blaming your customer for being frustrated that you can’t answer the phone is absurd. I don’t care how many phone calls you get.

Update to my dealings with

Marcus called me this morning (Sat). I will give you the short version:
He tell’s me that he is/will address the communication issues between his
sales team and customers. He states he will also fix the paperwork
errors Monday. He went on to say that I will be very happy with the ovens
as they are “like new”.
I do not expect them to be “like new”, they are used and refurbished.
Maybe I will be pleasantly suprised?
I ordered the MM360 double stack, fully refurbished, with modulating
gas valves for $10,500 . IF I put aside the issues I have had to date,
IF the ovens arrive and are as described by the salesperson and subsequently
confirmed by email : New wiring, all new motors,
all new controls, if it’s a moving part or an electronic/electrical part
it is new with the exception of the belts, I shall be very happy with the
Marcus was extremely offended that I referred to his company as a SHAM.
I agreed to remove that part of my post as it was without merit.
I will continue to update this post with the outcome and sincerely hope
I can post nothing but positives from this point on.