Should i upgrade from my Lincoln 1000's to some middlebys?

I have a set of super old lincoln 1000 ovens that are held together with Wire and glue literally. They work ok but are old and tired.

I found a double stack PS350 and PS 360 thats an hour away and only 3000 for the pair

We are doing about 16k a week and the Lincolns are just too small to handle the volume, i was hoping the bigger bake chamber would help with out volume and the price is great also

Hi joker:

That 350 is an oldie and was not a great oven when it was new.

At $3,000.00 the owner obviously does not think much of them and they have not been through a reconditioning shop.

I would want to know what model fingers are in those ovens. If they are the 360 S model in both ovens you might be able to make something out of them.

Use caution:

George Mills

What is the problem witht the 350 vs the 360?

I have a stack of 360Q’s at my other store and i love them they have been great ovens for me and are super easy to fix and work on

I do all my own oven repairs. The fingers should all be the S series

What is the problem with the 350 vs the 360?

It was the first attempt after the two fifty. The biggest problem was the fingers Middleby did not have good fingers after the 250 until they put the S fingers In their ovens. The 350 is even more of a bear to clean than the 360. Te 350 and early 360 ovens did not have the S fingers.

George Mills

I have a question. With sales of 16k a week and the idea of growing from there…why not invest in the long term and purchase a new stack of ovens? Warranty, no repairs, less headaches, less possibility of down time when you really need them running…etc. I have lived the buy what you can life and make it work until you can afford new or better options…but it seems like the sales should justify taking the next step here. Just cusious why you would want to buy another old set and not a new one. Yes, the cost is there, but also the savings in higher efficiency burners. Just curious???

I would have to agree with the other posters. If 16K is your average and not your peak volume, you are doing more than 800K per year. Bite the bullet and go with either new or recent models that are fully reconditioned. You can afford it.

Well if I can’t pay cash I don’t like to buy things I just financed a tractor for ny farm and that was very hard for me to do

I figure for the 3000 if I need to upgrade later I can always sell them for that if not more

I can swap ovens over night so that’s not a big issue I have a fork lift to move them and setup

My slower store does about 10-12k a week and we have MM ps360q and they work really well and I like them so I figure why not run the same oven I have lots of spare parts and I know how to work on them

16k is about our best week and our average over the last three months. Maybe next year we will hit the 20k+ weeks our business is very steady week days are about 1600-2200 and weekends are about 3200-3800

Debt is not the enemy if it is for a wise investment in equipment that will help you on the bottom line…

Are the used ovens as efficient $wise as new ones?..If not, how much extra expense will you have each week running used ovens?..How much will you save with new ovens?..With this savings, how long will it take you to pay the difference in price between used and new?..

I am sure when consultants look at the books of of a pizza places (or almost any business), they see instances where the owners are trapped with old equipment when new equipment is actually more profitable in the long run…

I agree as well. When I started I had a old middleby 200. Thing broke constantly, then trying to get parts from middleby was a nightmare. I couldnt be happier with my XLT. Quieter, cooler in the kitchen, and way more economical. It has never broke, however, if it does, being able to get parts at Grainger to fix instead of getting ahold of distributors is what sold it for me.

16k a week is a business that deserves some investment back into it sells just about every part for these ovens and they are cheap and good parts

So if you were in my shoes what ovens would you buy

I would consider they have refurbished double stack lincoln 1000s with a warranty for 10K. I have not purchased an oven from Shimmmer but I did sale them a used oven and the transaction went smooth.

Did you not read my first post? why would i buy a other set of small ovens that dont do what we need them to?

I would say bite the bullet and go new. The sales justify it and look long term. Less overhead, less utilities, less heat,… this has almost 100% pros and no cons. Some debt is good (or at least ok). :mrgreen:

Which ovens you buy require some calculations…Compare operating costs…Compare repairs…Compare output…Your sealer should be able to help you do some sort of workup that will provide some guidance…

The most important thing in my mind is reliability…If you read back in the archives you can see some of the horror stories involving ovens that quit at the very worst time…Many customers are not very forgiving when they do not get their food…

Yea, I read it a rebuilt oven will cook quicker than your older ovens, probably at least a minute faster per oven. I run over 16K a week with XLTs 3240, basically the same size as a lincoln 1000, but with the new technology your bake times are a lot faster. If you already have your mind made up what you are going to do why ask?

i have not made up my mind, thats why i am asking, however i am not going to waste money on another lincoln i want at least a 55" chamber or a 70"

The only way i would conisder a 40" if it was a WOW oven which they claim cooks 30% faster

Joker - I with you, as I do most of the work on our ovens too, and have for a long time.

However, I’ve started trying to get out of that mode. It’s just so much more peaceful having new equipment that works better, and doesn’t need repairs of any kind.

Any of the new ovens available will probably cook much better than the 350/360’s you are looking at.

Now if you are just thinking about switching because you happened to come across this deal - that’s one thing. But if you were thinking about changing ovens before this deal - then I’d seriously consider just picking up a double stack of new ovens of your choice. We are using XLT’s as our new ovens. I believe Paul has that other brand (I can’t think of the name now). The majority of our stores are still 360’s and I hate having to deal with them. I never hear a peep from the XLT stores, and that is almost worth the cost of admission.

hmm, well to be honest i was not really planning on “new ovens” we have talked about getting new ones but wanted to be open a little longer before sticking my neck out for 30k+

This store has only been open for 15 months. So when i came across the MM for 3k i figured why not jump on it for the time being. And i can alwasy sell them or sell my lincolns to or something.

I guess im just not ready for spending the money on a new oven yet. maybe 2-3 years down the road if i dont sell the store by then.

but on friday nights the lincolns dont like the 700-800 dollar hours they get very backed up

I will leave it at this. I understand being new and cautious. I understand less debt is great. The point to make is this is the one piece of equipment that is responsible for 100% of your bottom line. Pretty much any other piece goes down and pizzas still go out. The ovens go out and those $700-800 hours turn into zero dollars and negative advertising from all the people that ordered elsewhere that night. This happens on Friday night… when are the parts there? Monday morning! Now you have 3 dead days with no pizzas out and a lot of people talking about you in a bad way. This is a long term investment that will pay for itself over time in many ways. You will do what you want, and I do not own a pizzeria but have 20+ years of taking the old and making it work until you can replace it with the new… and many a many nights of working with electricians, plumbers, welders, HVAC, etc…etc…etc. We just announced an $11M expansion at our production facility and they are there because we were cautious when we needed too be but also INVESTED when we could. Think this over in many ways and at least call and talk to the reps from the oven companies you might be interested in and listen to the costs and benefits of each. I am betting some have attractive lease options that might be worth a look at. Best of luck either way and keep the sales going in the direction you have already achieved.

In reality, what are the chances that both ovens go out at the same time? In 8 years and with 6 double stacks, I haven’t seen that happen yet.