Some feedback please!

it is too early in the morning to write thoughtful prose so here goes:

You are doing $200 a day? Why do you have phone girls? Why do you have a pizza maker on salary? One guy can answer the phones and make $200 worth of pizza. Other than a delivery driver you should have no labor cost AT ALL since you are taking nothing.

Your partner is a moron.

You have to advertise unless you are in a location that generates so much foot traffic that you can’t handle the businesss… not your problem.

YOU don’t own the place. Your “partner” does if he has veto power over everything. Who signed the lease? Who has signing rights at the bank? Who is the regiestered agent with the state? Who holds the sales tax license? You are the fool that is working for free. Walk away or at the very least, loose the help you don’t need right now and take the paycheck.

You don’t have anything in writing? The good news is that you can walk away and the creditors will go after him rather than you.

If you can not get a solid agreement between you that recognizes your ownership and a commitment to realistic startup funding, you should get out of there.

Woah man… calm down. Did you not read any of my posts? Don’t come on here bashing someone you don’t know. He is a smart business man and has had his own successful business for 20 years (and its not an easy one). He has a family with three kids, a really nice house, a really nice summer house on a lake with 3 boats, nice cars, and started up this place with his own money… So hes obviously not a moron. Yeah, it may be moronic that he doesn’t want to advertise, but that does make him a moron.

Regardless of sales, why would I just get up and walk away? If I’m working for free to benefit the company and if it pays off in the long run, how does that make me a fool? Why would I need money if I’m working 100+ hours a week? So it can just sit in my bank while the company is struggling? I can’t prep everything, answer phones, help the walk-in customers (which is about 40% of our sales), delivery, and have my hands filled with sausage all at the same time… There would be 0 customer service and I guarantee you that if we kept that up, not only 1 would stress out to a point where yea I would wanna walk away but we wouldn’t have any more customers either.

My heart is dedicated to this place, I’m not giving up and just simply walking away. Are you kidding me.

Steve,

Without any agreement between the two of you, can you summarize “what’s in it for you?”.

That if we make it past this horrible construction* it will be mine one day. I guess you could say I’m working for shares right now.

(*update, which by the way today, there is absolutely no turning out of our lot, north or south)

And I just had a nice long talk with the head guy at our distributor and he’s telling me EVERYONE of his pizza accounts is hurting, or not ordering as much as usual these days. Places that have been established for many many years.

Steve - you can advertise on a budget and many have suggested how.
– Postcards - door hangers - e-mail - business to business -
– Do you have a local newspaper. invite them out for a visit - let them know about the construction.
– what about the construction workers - they have to eat - offer them a little incentive. (word of mouth works wonders)

But one thing is - stop worrying about what others are doing and how they are doing - focus on you. Try everything to hit your goals. Keep your eye on the ball and keep plugging away. Show your partner the numbers (either $ or %) and he will come around - no doubt.

This is great advice. I even told Statistic Canada to quit bothering me with their manditory surveys. My responses to them was “I don’t care what the industry trends in Quebec are. I care if I am selling pizza. If I am great if I am not then what difference does it make as to how the place across the country is doing? I need to know what my business is doing and how to improve my sales.”

Think Tank is a great place to find new ideas for marketing but every market is different. What I did for sales in my first year will have absolutely no value to anyone of you other than to satisfy idle couriousity.

What does that mean? “One day”? Seriously, specifically, what is in it for you?

Steve,

You are right. My comments were over the top. Especially calling your partner a moron. (allthough I have wonder how he got so successful without gaining the ability to understand how businesses work)

“why would I just get up and walk away? If I’m working for free to benefit the company and if it pays off in the long run, how does that make me a fool?”

Because it sounds like you are working for free in a situation where another persons’s bad decisions can prevent success and without any clear statement of what your stake in the business is or will become; no agreement between you. (BTW, you did not answer the questions about whose name is on the key documents)

You state “That if we make it past this horrible construction* it will be mine one day. I guess you could say I’m working for shares right now”. You also state in an earlier post that you have no written agreement. These two statements are in conflict with each other.

Despite your statement to contrary, at $200 per day you certainly can “prep everything, answer phones, help the walk-in customers (which is about 40% of our sales), delivery, and have my hands filled with sausage all at the same time…” with the help of one driver. We do it every day shift at our place. The manager does all the prep for the day (for more than $200 in sales too) and meantime does an average of about $400 a day in sales before 4PM with one driver. With a manager and a cook we will do $1000 a day pretty easily still without a phone person. My question stands: Why do you have a phone girl and a salaried cook?

BTW, you are almost certainly in violation of labor law having a cook on salary. Labor law protects employees against abuse of wage law like working 75 hours by defining what kinds of positions can be salaried. Cooks do not meet those tests. Check with your accountant. Another question, you state “My cook cannot answer phones (no speaka English)” Is he legal? Are you sure? My familiy is from the Chicago area and still lives there. I have friends that own businesses there. A cook with no other responsibilities there, that works 75 hours a week, and is legally employeed will cost you at least $1200 a week. Even at minimum wage, you can not staff the schedule you describe for $1000 per week legally. So, just wondering. (You will not find much sympathy on this board for employers that hire illegals.

I would also ask the accountant about your own employment status; if you have no documents showing you as an owner of the business, my guess is that your partner owns the business under the law and you should be getting paid, be covered by work comp etc etc.

Steve,

Sure is hard to put into context everything in a short post…isn’t it.

Well in answer to your original inquiry…have we had those days…yup. And man they are tough…really tough. What is worse it you are exhausted mentally, physically and financially and you have to get up everyday and do it all over again.

What is nice is every now and again you will have a surge of hope. Like the 10 pizza order.

There is so much going on right now, with you and your partner, contruction, the economy. I would suggest just focusing on a few things…square them off and move onto another. Make a big ol list of things to do and start doing them. Come up with a plan rather than just being hap hazard, which is so easy to do.

Again, there are sooooo many things I would want to get into but typing and getting into the whole dynamic of the situation is just not feasable. But here are a few things.

I understand needing the help. One our locations has a set up in a way you don’t need much labor everyone can move to each station with ease, our other location requires someone in each station the set up is a bit awkward and all the walls would have to be torn down to make it smooth like the other. Plus I am sure at this stage you guys truck along waiting for business and then wham…it all comes out of nowhere and is quite unpredictable. In order to meet customer service you have to have them…or do you?

BUT you are going to have to come up with a plan as far as your labor. You can only cut so much in labor…there is a minimum needed to perform…but at this stage your minimum needs to have maximum output. Just to throw some stuff out there… you need a phone person immediately cross train into cooking. If they aren’t willing or able to learn they must go. Sure their primary duty is phones but they should be training to be successful cooks as well. Same for your cook. Re evalutate him…what good is he if all he can do is make pizzas? In our place our cooks don’t even make a pizza until they can answer the phone.
What good is he if he can’t train a phone person to cook, because he can’t communicate?
Big Dave Ostrander wrote an article on triple threats…aka eagles. Google it and read it Heck memorize it.

Also as for your labor…your phone girls should/could be labeling postcards, out door hanging for an hour. Do they want to do this? probably not…but your job is to help them cross over to other areas and convince them they want to do it.

As for you I am sure at this point are exhausted… you need to keep tabs on yourself…eat regularly…bring a change of clothes and look the “owner” every second…do not become an employee. You need to be in front as much as possible shaking hands getting to know who your customers are. Chances are some of them own these businesses in your area…chances are some of them are teachers at local schools, perhaps the town gossip who loves to gab…so why not treat her like royalty so she gabs about your place. But if you don’t invest in finding out who they are you miss the chance to get your foot in the door.

You are never going to find that one thing that makes it happen…it is a combination of all of it. Your job is to play the part…always.

You have to get out of the kitchen when you are able and manage YOUR company. You need to have a staff you can train and who is willing and able to take the reigns so you can MANAGE. From your wording of “he doesn’t speak english or the phone"girls” don’t convince me these people are the right ones. Your “phone girls” should be up to their elbows in sausage so you can be up to your elbows in getting to know your customers. You community involvement will always come back and is a wise investment. People love themselves and you need to find out who they are.

And finally, and with all due respect…quit looking for an excuse for failure…when we allow our minds to start making excuses and blaming everything under the sun as to why OUR business is slow we are just making excuses. It’s not me…it’s the construction, or the economy. Let’s get real. It is you and your business. Why? YOU own your business.

Pizza is actually a great business to be in during a “recession” Why it is a cheap alternative to a fancy dinner. As for the construction…you deliver right? So how does the construction interfere with that…it doesn’t. Your delivery should be your bread and butter right now. Ohhhhh but we don’t get the exposure because of the construction, people don’t know we are here. Why don’t they know you are there? Cuz YOU haven’t used your business skill to tell them. What if you didn’t have a financial backer and it was all your money invested…every penny…you are just going to have to come up with creative, inexpensive ways to advertise. It is no different if YOU were totally invested. I think the fact that you have a partner with some cash flow gives you a bit of an edge because done professionally I think you can get some advertising $$$ from him.

You need to quit making excuses, dust yourself off and get your name out there. You are your boss…so have a good meeting with yourself and kick yourself and get with it. Be professional. Get the FACTS not the feelings and go to your partner with a plan. With real numbers/ projections. If I send out ??? post cards and we get ??? back we make an ??? ROI. Then we can take that money and do YYYY. Be a business man, not a glorified cook.

And just so you know I am kicking myself the same after writing all this…Hang in there and be SMART!

Kris

Just to play the “devil’s advocate” here, what if your partner put up all that money, etc. to get a break on his taxes from his other business? There are people who look for tax loss businesses to balance out their successful enterprises. (I was working at a little newspaper that was purchased by some people for that reason, and fortunately I found another job before they went bankrupt a year later!! I don’t think they realized how mismanagement can kill a business in a bad economy.)

Not having anything on paper could either be good for you in that you could walk away someday with your dignity and wallet intact, or it could be bad in that you put heart and soul into something that will never really be yours because it will be gone. I would sit down with your partner and most definately a lawyer and get it on paper just how that will play out in coming years. Otherwise, you’ll just be an employee who doesn’t need to be paid. (But unless it’s on paper that you are an owner, I’m thinking there are labor laws protecting you as well!)

I don’t understand the lack of advertising. Everyone has to advertise!!! You can do it cheaply but effectively or you can toss money around but you NEED TO ADVERTISE! One of our best “cheap advertising” things is to make sure you donate raffle/auction prizes for community fundraisers. Seek them out if necessary. (Usually we donate a large specialty pizza.) They will announce your name and prize in their advertising, and all the people in those groups will become loyal supporters in return. It will grow! All it costs you are a few pizzas now and then.

When we opened up, we were very slow. We bought an existing business in a bad place from bad previous management. We played the community loyalty card, but it still took time. After a year of business building, we moved to a better location just at the time the highway department decided to do construction in front of our shop, so I feel your pain on that one!! But once the construction was over, business tripled and has grown ever since. You can’t base success or failure on one month’s sales. Hang in there. If you have the passion, you’ll succeed. (With those legal documents protecting your interests in hand!!)

Waaaaaait a doggone minute. I think I have figured out this bizarre relationship! Is your “partner” your father?

How did you come to that conclusion???

Am I wrong? It just seemed to explain the arrangement. If not, it is a very strange setup.

You are correct indeed. Very well detective work. I was waiting for someone to figure that out.

And Kris, Bodegahwy, and Marbles… Thank you very much for the posts and putting things into perspective.

All the better if he is your dad.

I know everyone’s intention is good and the advice about the partner and getting stuff in writing is good and yes the stuff should have already been in writing but I think steve is just needing a bit of encouragement and ideas on what he can do, today to make things better tomorrow.

Clearly whoever the partner is, he know Steve and for whatever reason has invested all kinds of money in his abilities.

Working in and running your own business are two very different things…most people going into this biz don’t realize that. There is a whole other side to the equation when it comes to running it…that is where I think he is stuck.

Get some kind of marketing plan together based on the information we have said, get a great crew together and make it happen.

As one poster has posted
If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you have always got!

Kris

The following got me thinking:

  1. No partnership agreement
  2. Financial partner gives all the money and has no agreement
  3. You work long hours with no pay and no agreement
  4. You criticize partner but then vigorously defend him when he is attacked

Best to be as upfront as possible on here. Otherwise, the advice may be inappropriate. For example, my advice of dumping your partner isn’t available. You are stuck with Dad cause he loves you and invested in you. YOU must make this work. On the other hand, he is outright giving you a gift and I am sure expects very little or any return on his investment. You should have probably said “My father is setting me up in business”. Completely different beast.

Probably will get the business outright. I am sure Dad is not wanting any working interest or equity return. He probably just hopes you will return the favor in his old age. It also sounds like no debt to manage. Excellent.

However, if a parent makes what is an investment in you, they are going to want to make sure you do not screw it up so they will exercise some control. Figure that as interest or profit distribution.

Personally, from what you have said (and finally revealed), my plan would be:

  1. Be eternally grateful and give your father the love and respect he deserves.
  2. Expect him to do NOTHING MORE for you. Don’t ask for anything else!
  3. I think he is saying no marketing because you guys are running a loss and he does not want to put more money in.
  4. Work ON your business and not IN your business - that is your daily goal. You may HAVE to work IN your business, but even then you can be working ON your business in your head.
  5. Get formal documentation with your father ASAP! You need to clarify each of your expectations. If it is for you to own it outright one day, put in there how that will be accomplished.
  6. Do a business plan. See a SCORE counselor.

I certainly hope that if this was truly an expression of faith in you, that you realize the magnitude of the sentiment. Keep that in mind when his pokes his nose into “your” business. He means well.

Nothing will torpedo your energy and enthusiasm for your business like dealing with Probate AS WELL AS figuring out how to develop & fund your marketing plan.

Part of your problem seems to be a lack of a written plan of what your business goals are and how the management intends to achieve those goals in both the short and long term. A business solid plan will answer those questions most times when there is a disagreement. Get a plan and work it.

It truly will help give you some direction when you feel like you are floundering. We all have the days of overwhelmed stress or uncertainty. Some less often, others more. That business plan and every bit of structure you can put into place with procedures and policies . . . will take the guess work and emotional reaction out of running the business.

Oh, and get pictures of me, WA Dave and Daddio . . . you can look at it when you feel bad, and realize that at least you are prettier than we are. :cry:

I don’t understand. Are you saying he should NOT get formal documentation with his father?! If he does not and his father dies, then it WILL go through probate. With a lawyer and the proper documents, he can not only clarify their relationship and goals, but avoid probate, becoming a partner with his father’s wife (if living) or with his siblings (if the wife is dead).

Or maybe you were agreeing with me?

Charles, I stand in awe. Mouth open. Wow.

I retract some of what I said… not sure yet which parts, but certainly much of it. At least the relationship with the partner makes sense to me now. It made no sense at all before.

Here are the parts I still stand by:

  1. Your labor has to make sense with respect to sales. You still do not need three people in the kitchen to do $200 per day. The points made above about cross training etc are important. Take them to heart. Start legal with employment practices and stay that way.

  2. You simply have to advertise. Every business has its competitive, established model. In pizza, the model includes either advertising or a location across the street from a land grant university with 30,000 students or something similar. It does not sound like your location is going to substitute for advertising. In a noisy, crowded marketing environment like the Chicago area it will cost some serious money. Without spending that money, you have wasted and are wasting the money you have spent so far.

  3. You need to have documentation of the business relationship for several reasons mentioned in the posts above.

Last, you are only 30 days into this. It is way too early to be getting very worked up about the numbers. Put together a sensible marketing plan scaled to the sales number you want to get to and sell it to your “partner”. Get your costs under control.

Good luck.

LOL. With most it is standing in shock.