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Some feedback please!

As I was typing my last post, I was thinking in my head, d@mn this does sound like I’m stubborn as heck and have an answer for everything but I do not think that is the case… The bottomline is I don’t know everything, thats why I started this thread. I’m taking everything you guys are saying to heart but certain things clash when I factor in reality here… like the sausage thing… although that was more of a joke, I do get what he was saying.
 
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The bottom line is experienced people are telling you they do 3 or 4 times your business with half as many people. And your brushing it off as a minor detail. You will fail if you don’t learn how to run a lean operation. Even if your sales grow, you won’t have the experience to cut the fat and actually profit from it.

You lament that you have no marketing money and then get defensive when experienced people tell you that you are flushing hundreds of dollars down the toilet. You will have to nearly quadruple your sales to get to a decent labor percentage, and that’s still without you getting paid.
 
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CMEC:
The bottom line is experienced people are telling you they do 3 or 4 times your business with half as many people. And your brushing it off as a minor detail. You will fail if you don’t learn how to run a lean operation. Even if your sales grow, you won’t have the experience to cut the fat and actually profit from it.

You lament that you have no marketing money and then get defensive when experienced people tell you that you are flushing hundreds of dollars down the toilet. You will have to nearly quadruple your sales to get to a decent labor percentage, and that’s still without you getting paid.
I do not mean to come off as defensive… I’m not really sure what to say at this point. I do not know how much more fat I can cut. When we first opened, my labor was 2,000/wk (which obviously was insane). Then I cut it to 1700, then 1500, Then 1200, and now I’m at 950/wk with a full time cook and thats with me completely by myself after 8 Mon - Thurs, and Sunday all day.

I’m just stressed & overwhelmed more than I’ve ever been in my life, and I did not mean to offend or make any one upset with me for trying to help but think they can’t get thru to me. It may seem that I’m getting defensive, but it doesn’t mean I’m not learning or going to start taking action going forward. I appreciate ALL the feedback, ALL of it.
 
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Can the cook drive? If so, you could easily run your place with you and him. He can make pizza when he’s not on the 3-5 daily deliveries, freeing you to answer phones and check out walk-ins, etc. Close shop on Sunday to refresh you both. Then use that extra money to print some nice menus, send mailers, doorhangers, etc. Having a driver who can cook and a manager (you) who can do everything is worth about 3.5 non versatile people.

Also, since you’re in a high business density area, you should start by delivering a personalized letter with a menu and a sample pizza to every HR Director in your area. They are the people within companies who usually place large orders for lunch and events.
 
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Hmmmmmm, I am stumped. How on earth is your labor 950 bucks? If you have 2 part timers and your cook and you don’t get paid?

I know you started with a marketing question…the reason it has turned into a labor issue is you can raise your sales all you want but when you labor is 60% plus it won’t matter. You can sell pizzas all day long and go under.

I have had wonderful people work for me over the last 14 years. I mean really great people, many I have considered “family” but I am running a business. You cannot operate on “feelings” you have to operate on good, wise business decisions. When all is said and done you are making a decision which is ultimately going to effect you and your investor and in the end your cook will still have to look for a job.

I give you a couple of weeks before the bottom falls out and here is why

You only have 100% (which is sales)
If you are spending 60+% on labor and ideally 33% on food (which I very much doubt) you only have 7% left for all your other expenses. It just isn’t going to happen.

I am afraid you are learning the great lessons of business ownership.

Good Luck

Kris

You can lead a mule to the trough but you can’t make him drink.
 
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One thing you can do with a small to nonexistent marketing budget is to let your product do your marketing. I would type up a letter introducing yourself and explaining about your superior product. Tell your potential customer that you are so sure they will love your pizza that the first one is on you. Make the letter good for a large 1 topping free. My experience is that 30-40% will get redeemed. On average, the customer will spend an additional $5-6 on extra toppings or sodas or a second pizza, so you will break even on their 1st order and make your money when they become repeat customers. Buy a roll of stamps on monday($42). Print 100 letters from your computer. Mail 20 each day 5 days a week.(maybe 10 to household, 10 to businesses?)
Repeat again next week and the week after etc. In a perfect world, you would purchase purchase a mailing list but if that isn’t in your budget, address them by hand. This won’t turn things around overnight, but slowly you will have more customers.

10 weeks x100 free pizza letters/week = 1000 free pizza letters
30% redemption=300 first time customers.
25% of those 300 become loyal regular customers= 75 new loyal customer
each loyal customer purchases $30-40/month= $2250-$3000 increase in monthly sales.
This program works. If you want it to work faster send more letters out each week. However, with a limited budget(less than $50/week) this will help you steadily build your business.
 
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Man this is tough…

My cook is being paid 700/wk and my phone people make up the 250/wk.

1 phone person Monday - Friday 11-2
1 phone person everyday 5-8

I’m finding it difficult to understand how I can do EVERYTHING and still promote the business and give good customer service with a good product and on time with no or even less staff than I’m currently using.

Labor is 60% because of our current sales… If we did sell more and sales were up and had the same staff we do now, our labor would be less than 60% right? I’m just clarifying because you said “you can raise your sales all you want but when you labor is 60% plus it won’t matter.” I understand what you’re saying but it sounds like you’re saying if sales were up I would just get MORE staff and be in the same boat I’m at now with 60% labor cost. If we were doing 4,000/wk with a 950 labor cost thats 24%. I’m not trying to question you defensively or rudely, I want to learn.

Our food cost is around 33-35% right now with paper goods and its been consistent since we opened. We do do portion control on virtually everything and I watch things like a hawk. I’m thinking it a little high still, so that is something I am working on every day to shave off the numbers without effecting quality and consistency.

Thanks again for all the post guys.

And perfect pizzas, that is a really good idea and good numbers posted. I will definitely pitch that to the ol man when I get a chance.

Thanks!
 
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Steve most successful pizzeria owners are also part-time magicians…lol…sorry to say but build a good business is hard work…For some ideas about getting your menu out, please take a look at www.taradel.com Look under their “Industry Resources” tab for more info…Keep at it and good luck…
 
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:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

I really don’t even know what to say…700 bucks a week. Man, I was truly rootin for ya…but you have got to be friggin kidding me. I don’t care if he works 80 hours a week. Half of your sales is going to a COOK for crying out loud…and with all due respect he can’t speak english.

I am not saying you need to do it all yourself but for 700 bucks a week you could hire THREE MORE PART TIMERS!!!

And yes you WILL have to hire more people if your sales go up because your current staff is not cross trained. It will be years before the “cook” can effectively answer the phone.

You need to do some serious thinking. It takes time to raise sales and since this guy is salary there is NO WAY to save on his labor…none…zip…zero and you cannot effectively run your business with just you and him because he can’t speak english.

I am not trying to be an a$$ but are you friggin kidding me??? You can hire someone for minimum wage and spend the other 500 bucks a WEEK on marketing. Not that is some serious marketing!

Time to make tough decisions!

Kris
 
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I said I’d stay away fromt this thread, but I can’t now…

$700 to a cook? WTF?

We have 2 GM’s making about that and they are running stores doing about $10K/week. We have another GM making a bit more than that running a $14K/week store.

How do you justify paying that much for a cook?
 
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Your cook is making about 4.5-5 bucks a pizza, FYI

Since you said he works a ton of hours a week, he must be sitting around alot. If you can’t man up and lose him, at least have him doorhanging 4-5 hours a day. That will really help sales with no further outlay.

At your size and up to 6 or 7K you only need a cook for 2 MAYBE 3 hours a day. You can handle the rest yourself.
 
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Kris:
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

I really don’t even know what to say…700 bucks a week. Man, I was truly rootin for ya…but you have got to be friggin kidding me. I don’t care if he works 80 hours a week. Half of your sales is going to a COOK for crying out loud…and with all due respect he can’t speak english.

I am not saying you need to do it all yourself but for 700 bucks a week you could hire THREE MORE PART TIMERS!!!

And yes you WILL have to hire more people if your sales go up because your current staff is not cross trained. It will be years before the “cook” can effectively answer the phone.

You need to do some serious thinking. It takes time to raise sales and since this guy is salary there is NO WAY to save on his labor…none…zip…zero and you cannot effectively run your business with just you and him because he can’t speak english.

I am not trying to be an a$$ but are you friggin kidding me??? You can hire someone for minimum wage and spend the other 500 bucks a WEEK on marketing. Not that is some serious marketing!

Time to make tough decisions!

Kris
I really like the business advice (without the emotions) you give and you are right. I’m not going to deny it. This would be one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to do if I decide to let him go. Without the money involved, I would be wondering am I really making a good decision?

I’m a really worried person. I worry that I won’t be able to find these 3 part timers that you speak of that can do as much work (and quality) as my guy I have now, I worry I wont be able to trust them, I worry that I would NEVER be able to leave wondering if they can represent me and cook exactly how I want it cooked, I worry that if I hired minimum wage part times how long they would last, I worry I would have too much turnaround etc. I know it takes time for all those things I just mentioned and how my staff reflects me and how well I train them. I’m very confident in my training capabilities but if I don’t have the ‘right’ people, I can’t control that. My guy that I just let go was an incredible pizza maker, but put him on the roller and oh boy watch out. Its things like that that worry me. Its hard to find all around good people with equally distributed attributes.

Part timers around here go to school, and plan to stay in school for many more years to come - how long will they really last for? A month? A Year? 2 Years? 5 years (I doubt it)?

I do have some very labor and detail oriented pizzas on my menu (not to mention salads). And my guy now fits well under those conditions. Like I said, he is considered family to me. He has done nothing wrong for me to let him go. But you’re right, business is business and that is what I need to highly reconsider.

Man what to do, what to do…

Thanks again for the post Kris. Don’t give up on me.
 
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Most of our employees are college students or high schoolers who will be going to college.

What is nice about this is you get the cream of the crop. Sure they may only stay for a short while but they have brains, they speak english, they are over achievers, perfectionists. They usually care what their work record is so they won’t no call no show. They usually need a very flexible schedule because they are involved in activities at school (which actually helps with sales, cuz when the group needs pizza they call us)

We DON’T want our employees to stay around forever,at some point we want them to “graduate” and get real jobs. Sure we have some who will be with us for years but I think over the years the ones who truly “helped” my business had bigger aspirations than being a cook. The ones that tend to hang around too long have drinking and drug problems.

We get lucky when we have them start as juniors cuz they stay until they are sophmores in college, then they usually transfer to a university.

You are putting way to much into this guy. I completely and totally understand that I don’t know him or your relationship, but I can assure you I have had those employees. Just a few, but none the less I was willing to give my left arm for them, and them for me…but I have found when they have left, I am just fine. Sure it takes a bit to find some really great employees but my business did not depend on them, it depended on me. I had to get a training routine down, I had to idiot proof every aspect of operations.

We don’t pay our employees much, but they love the job, they love the flexible schedule and it works both ways.

Seriously, buy some St. Johns Wort…it will help with the worries, and get rid of this guy by the end of the week.
He is going to end your dream and make you look like a complete idiot to your father who has put faith in you that when these tough decisions need to be made you will make them.

Hire people at just a little over minimum wage that is what you can afford.

Kris
 
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Steveo,
I commend your loyalty to this friend. I say “friend”, because that’s what he is. And as a friend, this guy needs to know why you need to restructure. It’s that or the restaurant dies. And if that happens, then you’re both out of a job.

Maybe he’ll be willing to work for you for a little more than minimum (hourly, not salary), with the understanding that when your restaurant gets into the black, that he (and you) will both get rewarded. Have you asked?

You have heard a lot of feedback from some successful business people here. They have some very valid points. I too am learning the ropes. In the year and a half that I’ve been open, I have completely gutted my staff. I can honestly say that I am twice as efficient as when I opened. It had to be done and some of the decisions were tough. But this is business and survival is the absolute top priority.

Hopefully your friend will understand and you can keep your friendship (and restaurant).
 
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Steveo,

Ya’ put in a quarter, and didn’t get any change! 🙂 You are getting lots of experienced impressions and feedback.

The key for you is to sift through and find what is useful and relevant to you and how you run your business. The labor costs are pretty surprising, the marketing money is sparse, and the wolf is always at the door. You are dealing with things we all fight with every day . . . it’s just magnified for you as you are starting up and fighting to grow stable sales.

Pizza business is not for the faint of heart or for the little dogs, who should stay on the porch. You have some sense and some passion for your business. Love it enough to make the decisions, and hate it enough to find time for yourself to recharge somewhere.
 
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I feel for you. I had some construction right in front of my place all summer that gave the impression that we were closed (on the weekends they would divert the traffic around the job site and people didn’t realize they could still get into our parking lot). It killed me all summer. I wouldn’t fire the cook. Just sit him down and tell him that you can only pay him minimum wage until things get better. I’m sure he is not dumb, and realizes how slow it is. Explain to him that you understand if he needs to find a different job. If it were me, I’d rather have him there making minimum then some kid off the street. Set a program in place where he gets raises for every benchmark hit. I do this for my managers and they love it. For every thousand more we do a week he gets a $100 dollar bonus. If that number becomes the new weekly average for six months, the money becomes permanent.
I can’t give you any advertising advice above what you have already received.
I also own a business with my father, owning and managing commercial properties. It is tough, we never really make decisions as equal partners, but rather always as father/son. Lastly, as one who owns several successful business entities (thanks to God, hard work and more than a little luck), the advice I give everyone going into business is to fight as hard as you can to break even. Pay all your bills, keep the store clean and do the best job you can. If all goes well you can start to take some money around year two. If things go really well you should be making a good pay by year five. Obviously, you may do better more quickly and that is great. Try to get (at least) just one new loyal customer a week. You do that for five years and you’ll be doing $5000 more a week. Doesn’t sound hard does it? Just one new customer a week. You gotta hang in there, assuming you can cover your overhead. Whatever you do, don’t get lazy, complacent or bitter.
I agree with closing a day, I actually close two (monday and tuesday). I ask any customer who complains, “how many days a week do you work?”. Yes, it leaves money on the table. But as I’ve said in other posts, I’m trying to make a living, not a killing.

Wow, this is really long. Good luck to you.
 
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I can see that this thread has veered from what you were originally asking. However, as you say, you have learned a lot from the wisdom shown in the replies from the several contributors.

I think a return to a discussion of some of the motivations that prompted your original post would be worthwhile. I think one of the main things you wanted was a plethora of responses promoting significant marketing activity that you could then take to your father to help convince him about what you saw as a major, fundamental necessity for your business to develop increased sales and eventually, profitability. “See dad, all these experienced pizzeria operators agree with me.â€

What I’m about to type is based upon what I see as a major desire of yours. That is, you want your partner, your dad, to invest (spend) additional outlays on marketing. If the marketing is effective and profitable, you believe that many of your other management problems would work themselves out. If you could efficiently generate enough increased sales, everything would be better.

Begin Digression:
Before I get into it, let me say that what I’ll be discussing is minor compared to what I hope seems to be gradually dawning on you. I think you’re starting to realize what it might take from you personally to sometimes have to make dispassionate decisions in your business life. Since, you’re obviously a caring person, it’s a type of gut check for you.

You’ve obviously learned a life lesson that you’re capable of incredibly long, protracted labor based strictly on your own internal motivation. No one has forced you to undertake such an arduous struggle. You’ve motivated yourself to do it on your own. Congratulations!

But… how your current dilemma has come to be framed is a different type of struggle. You care about your employees, your business and your dad, and you care about right and wrong. If you could, you would just work longer and harder so that you wouldn’t have to sacrifice the employment of your friend. However, you’ve maxed out the most you can give of your time without risking burnout or breakdown.

Further, you’ve invested yourself in a model that you’ve set up in your mind and in physical form in your location regarding how and by whom activity will take place within and without your business. You don’t want to let go of what you’ve invested in, whether it’s your friend’s employment or how a pizza maker in your shop handles raw sausage. So your current growth experience is to step back to reassess your entire situation in managing your business.

I recommend you look at your entire operation as completely as possible from the point of view of a dispassionate observer. Actually try to examine what happens physically within your location and with your employees’ time. Could certain raw ingredients be handled with disposable gloves that are discarded at the ring of a bell? Could certain raw ingredients be pre-cooked and then used as ready to eat ingredients? Could certain employees’ time be made more productive by always having something for them to do, even when no orders or customers need attention?

Just because you are young doesn’t mean that you haven’t hardened your thinking. Have you become so wedded to your concepts and plans and procedures that you can’t examine them the way you would when observing a stranger’s operation? Remember, you are managing a business. It may be your business, but it is still a business.
End Digression.

(Keep in mind, I’ve been awake too long to be thinking clearly, so you may not make the same connections in your mind as I have.)

I am not now, nor have I ever been, a pizzeria operator. I started reading and posting here because I’m interested in the field. However, I have business experience, and as my name suggests, poker and gambling experience.

Some parallels to poker strategy can easily be drawn to your present business situation. I don’t know your dad, so I don’t know how he would react to your discussing with him your business situation in poker terms. However, maybe looking at the same problem from a different perspective might jar his thinking. Remember that this just relates to your desire for more marketing.

I don’t have the time to find relevant passages from poker texts written by statisticians, but I think you’ll get the idea. When you’re playing poker, many of your decisions relate to the size of the pot. Imagine you’re sitting around a poker table playing a cash game with a pot in the middle. Although some of the players are out of the hand, you’re still in the hand along with a few others.

Cash game poker is one long game that lasts your lifetime. You don’t make decisions because you need to win any one certain hand. Your decisions aren’t geared to one hour or one session or one month. You’re trying to win for the long term. You make dispassionate decisions regarding when to play, where to play, whom to play with, where to sit, how long to play, what mental and physical condition you play in, etc.

So you’re sitting at the table with this pot in front of you. Is the value of the pot affected by which players put checks (chips) in the pot? Does it matter if some drunk walked by and gratuitously threw in some extra checks as a pot sweetener? Does it matter how much you put in the pot? No to all of those. This isn’t a tournament. Just a pot in a cash game.

Now when you evaluate how to play out the hand, part of your decision making will involve who put what in the pot and when, but once checks are in the pot they belong to the pot. Their value isn’t changed because of who put them in, including what, if anything you put in the pot.

Now think of your business as a pot. Only this is a different type of pot, of course. Every day its physical assets (non real estate) are depreciating. Every day your business is getting more profitable, less profitable or staying the same. Every day your business is getting more valuable, less valuable or staying the same. But all that equipment and build-out are declining in value. Oh, and it doesn’t matter now to the owner of that business who paid for all that stuff. (I’m leaving out all the stupidity that our tax code causes. I’m assuming it really matters to the owner what happens to his business.)

You see, once you own that business, free and clear, it doesn’t matter if you built it, bought it, inherited it, acquired it as proceeds from a lawsuit, won it in a raffle, or whatever way you acquired it. It doesn’t matter if you built it up from glued up toothpicks and sweat or your rich uncle gave it to you on a lark. It’s yours. It belongs to you, just as the checks in a poker pot belong to the pot.

Now suppose you’re sitting around a poker table playing Texas Hold’em, holding cards, looking at a pot that is worth $80,000. It’s the final round of betting and the player to your left opens for $100. The remaining players all fold and the action gets to you. You can fold, call or raise. If you fold or call, your action will end all betting. Lets see, the pot is worth $80,100 and you can call for $100. That’s 801 to 1 odds. It doesn’t matter how bad your hand is, you shouldn’t fold. You may call or raise, but folding is absolutely out of the question. There is no possible hand where you could be an 801 to 1 dog. Even if you had the worst possible hand attainable, the bettor could have the same hand and you could split the pot. Obviously, this is a ludicrous example, but I’m trying to make a point here, so bear with me.

In the poker example above, it didn’t matter who had put money into the pot. Whether the player faced with the $100. bet had put in zero or $40,000. didn’t matter. His poker reasoning was affected by which players did what, but his overriding consideration was the money odds. It was risk vs. reward.

So a small business owner is staring at his business. It doesn’t matter how he got it or how much he personally put into it. It has a current value. It’s value is either growing, diminishing, or staying the same. His manager comes to him and says, “Sir, your business, as currently operated cannot sustain itself. It is losing money and value daily. I have formulated a plan of action. It includes certain cost controls. However, without increasing sales, cost cutting alone will only slightly extend the time of its demise.

“I have consulted with several successful professionals in the same business as yours, and they have given me their expert advice regarding increasing sales for your business. Barring some unlikely, external sales demand, increasing sales will definitely require marketing efforts on our part. I have researched this extensively, and I propose the following efforts on our part. (X,Y &Z are presented)

“Because we are losing money and our equipment is now used and depreciating, I believe the current value of the business is X dollars. At our current rate, I estimate in six months its value will be X-Y dollars. The marketing efforts I propose will cost Z dollars per month for the next six months. It is a risk. It has a reward. The risk is very small compared to the potential reward. If it works, in one year the business could be worth 150% to 200% of its current value. If we do nothing, in one year the business will likely be closed and its equipment will be for sale and you will recover only 80% (or whatever %) of X, its present value.â€

So you’re (obviously, your father is) sitting around an unusual gaming table. The pot is a delco pizza restaurant presently valued at $60,000. (for example) It comes with a young but unusually hard working manager. It’s deal or no deal time. You could liquidate it now. You could leave it on the table and gamble $600. more a month out of your pocket for 6 months and re-evaluate. Let’s say that after 6 months, if things are working out, you project that in 12 months it will be worth $100,000. (obviously made-up). You’re risking $3,600. To gain $40,000. The profit would be 11 for 1. That would be huge pot odds in poker. Of course the business owner here has more than just chance going for him. He has the industriousness and determination of his manager, who is also willing to listen to expert advice.

The amounts are completely contrived, of course. (And the author is sleep-deprived.)
The question is, can you convince your partner that a well-considered marketing effort by you has a more likely chance of success than 9% or 10% or 11%? If the expected 1 or 2 year rate of return if successful is $40K or $50K or $60K increase in value and the only risk is $4K or $5K, are you a 10:1 longshot? Even craps odds are way better than that.

Selling this to your father could very well be more difficult than selling it to a stranger. However, he’s the one you need to sell. Can you convince him that you have at least a 15% or 20% chance of bringing profitability through increased marketing? Some people are motivated by gain. Some are motivated to avoid losses. Some think both ways. Your proposal could cover both ends. Much of the money he has put in will evaporate if you are not successful. He stands to gain much if you are successful.
 
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