substitutions, 1/2 and 1/2

thought i’d throw it at the Tank ! Do you take 1/2 and 1/2 orders ? Do you take substitutions on specialty pizzas ? Currently our menu says no substitutions, no one reads it and i let it slide . Customer : i’d like a 1/2 combo no onions , no green pepper , add artichoke hearts , mt balls, the other half, veg, no tomatoes, no blk olives add spinach , basil ,cooks get it wrong, remake , customer wants it free or discounted,thinking of making a bunch of 3 item specialty pizzas ( dummy down recipies ) to make things less complex and faster … Thank You for any imput to a problem we all encounter !!!

We accept anything the customer orders. 1/2 1/2, quarters, 1 slice with no onion. Butter on the crust, draw a picture on the box, make half well done. I’m pretty some people just want to see what they can get us to do. Yes we make them wrong, yes it slows things down. I make more wrong pizzas than anyone. When I jump on the make line everyone cringes. I wish we could simple things down but it seems to be the world we live in.

For the reason you stated our policy is - no 1/2 on make your own and no 1/2 on small (10") or gourmet pizzas. Had too many issues on 1/2 when (as example) 5 ingredients wanted on one 1/2 and 6 different ones on other 1/2. Gourmets have different base sauces and the taste on many is due to the base sauces. We don’t want sauces “bleeding” from one half to the other.
Substitutions of ingredients: Our menu states “All substitutions charged as extra topping”. Saves the hassle when people want to take off, say, onion (10c worth) and add artichoke hearts (90c worth), or a cheap meat with an expensive one.
If a customer queries why it can’t be done we just say it is the way the computer system is programmed - it can’t make the changes on different values - too complex to set up and manage
We may get 1 person a year decide not to order because we won’t do what they want, but for simplicity, error reduction and speed, especially on busy nights I have no problems with what we do.
We have 30 + specialty pizzas to choose from where they can get them as is or take off an item or for a charge add an unlisted ingredient for that specific pizza. Make your owns we have 3 standard toppings with any other at the listed added price.
Works well and saves a lot of problems of wrong make, re-makes or credits.
Dave

pizzapiratespp said:

We accept anything the customer orders. 1/2 1/2, quarters, 1 slice with no onion. Butter on the crust, draw a picture on the box, make half well done. I’m pretty some people just want to see what they can get us to do. Yes we make them wrong, yes it slows things down. I make more wrong pizzas than anyone. When I jump on the make line everyone cringes. I wish we could simple things down but it seems to be the world we live in.

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Pizzapirate, I know you run an extremely strong string of shops, and good on you for tour successes.
Everyone to their own, but I guess we are more conditioned here to accept what is on the menu than what you guys experience.
What I have seen over the years on TT is that the accepted thing in USA is to be all things for all people (no problem from me on that if that is the accepted thing), but here we are more conditioned to what is on the menu. Not many shops here have the base then add your toppings like I see on most American menus. We have specialty pizzas as the core with a small % asking for “make your own” so what they see is the accepted thing.
It is funny that it is only pizza where the customer expectation is what it is. You never see a fish and chip shop give yo 1/2 a piece of fish of one type and 1/2 of another, or a restaurant serve 1/2 a steak and 1/2 chicken etc. It is only peculiar to pizza and I think over the years a rod has been made to be broken over our backs for the sake of giving into customer “demands” against the fear of losing that customer.
Same is when a customer asks for a discount when doing a large order. Try asking for a discount at a restaurant when you have 10 or 12 people in a group.
I believe (may be right or wrong) but the reason so many pizza shops go bust is because they are so engrossed with “customer demands” of all sorts that they are trying to be everything to everyone, and this just can’t work. You lose sight of how you have planned to run your business and it becomes a case of the tail wagging the dog as stores cave into unrealistic demands from customers.
I’m happy the way our business runs to our systems and 99% of our customers are as well.
I’m there to operate the business in a cost effective, smooth manner catering for the masses who order week after week, and if that means I lose a couple of customers a year because they don’t like how we do it, than that is how it is. I’m happy for them to go to someone else who is willing to slow down their system, make the “unmakeable” and accept the complaints when it is not done how they wanted it.
Dave

We will do 1/2 & 1/2 using a 12" 0r 14" as long as both halves have the same kind of sauce. We charge the full pizza at the price of the most expensive 1/2.

Like wa dave, we don’t discount for eliminating a topping and substitutions are charged as an additional topping. If the customer questions this policy I invite them to see how much the menu pizza would cost as a “build your own”. The price is usually around $3 more.

This topic always makes me think of this episode of The Big Bang Theroy

We do 1/2 1/2 pizzas and charge for the most expensive type. If we can do it for the customer we will do it yes it slows things down and yes mistakes get made but its not worth the argument with the customer about why we cant do it.

As far as substitutions on specialty pizzas, I allow deletions (eg no onions) but I don’t allow additions, substitutions or halves with specialty pizzas. My team lets the customer know that if they don’t see what they want on the specialty menu, we’d be glad to make them a pizza from the regular menu, where they can choose any toppings they like. That usually shuts them down.

I’m happy to do halves on a regular menu pizza, but not on specialties. If they want a large specialty with two different halves, we would suggest two mediums, one of each variety (my specialty pies are not all priced the same).

Val and i LOVE big bang theory !!! Thanks Richard !!! Thanks for all your posts ! i really like the suggestion of charging for an extra topping when a substitution is requested . also charging for the more expensive half , when ordering 1/2 and 1/2 , that should help, sometimes people request items off my salad bar for their pizza,sometimes people request pizza toppings for their salad ,no can do , i’ve had people very angry at me both ways ! , just give em some ice cream they’ll get over it ! i really liked wa Dave’s attitude , thats how my brain works also,but,i hate confrontations with people .

OSV said:

As far as substitutions on specialty pizzas, I allow deletions (eg no onions) but I don’t allow additions, substitutions or halves with specialty pizzas. My team lets the customer know that if they don’t see what they want on the specialty menu, we’d be glad to make them a pizza from the regular menu, where they can choose any toppings they like. That usually shuts them down.

I’m happy to do halves on a regular menu pizza, but not on specialties. If they want a large specialty with two different halves, we would suggest two mediums, one of each variety (my specialty pies are not all priced the same).

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Virtually the same as us and as with Daddio we charge the most expensive half with an extra $1 surcharge for 1/2 & 1/2. Dominos, Pizza Hut and Eagle Boys charge $2.50 for half/half and do not do them on gourmet, stuff crust, or some others.
Dave

i allow 1/2 and 1/2 pizzas, specialty (assuming crust and sauces match, otherwise customer has to chose which one to put on it) and custom pizza’s.

We do allow substitutions and charge for extra toppings. All of my specialty pizzas are priced at the same point, so doing half and half’s does not matter to much on the price point (if your wondering they are all priced based off the most expensive one).

We occasionally get people who ask for 1/4 or one slice and my policy is always no. I agree pizza has been thrown into this weird category where people think they can get a discount just because they are ordering more. My response because i refuse to discount the order is it takes more labor and food to make your order then a normal order.

It is funny that it is only pizza where the customer expectation is what it is. You never see a fish and chip shop give yo 1/2 a piece of fish of one type and 1/2 of another, or a restaurant serve 1/2 a steak and 1/2 chicken etc. It is only peculiar to pizza and I think over the years a rod has been made to be broken over our backs for the sake of giving into customer “demands” against the fear of losing that customer.

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Ain’t it the truth. (the worst part is that some of that is actually calculated by the larger chains…)

Same is when a customer asks for a discount when doing a large order. Try asking for a discount at a restaurant when you have 10 or 12 people in a group.

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They usually think they’re being clever by asking for the discount before they place the order (which usually turns out to be 4 or 5 larges). I head it off at the pass by telling them “of course we have a discount for large orders. We offer 10% off for 20 or more large pies, with 24 hour advance notice”.

I believe (may be right or wrong) but the reason so many pizza shops go bust is because they are so engrossed with “customer demands” of all sorts that they are trying to be everything to everyone, and this just can’t work. You lose sight of how you have planned to run your business and it becomes a case of the tail wagging the dog as stores cave into unrealistic demands from customers.

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I think that can be a big part of it. It’s a shame.

We try to give the customer what they want except that 1/2 is as far as we go. We do not do 1/3s or 1/4s.

We do not do 1/2 on different sauces though. Anything else is fine.

Our combos are not discounted, i.e. they price out just the same as if you entered all the toppings which eliminates the motivation for customers to do a bunch of substitutions rather than just enter the order as they want it; the price is the same either way.

The POS takes care of all the pricing so there is no issue there. You take onions off the whole pizza and add wild boar sausage on half and computer prices it out… not an issue.

We price each half 50% of the whole pizza price for toppings, sauces and signature pizzas.

• 
  []Half cheese, half 6 toppings - costs the same as 3 whole toppings and is “not a problem.”
  []Half build-your-own, half signature pizza - “not a problem.”
  []Different signature pizza on each half - “not a problem.”
  []Different sauces on each half - we’ll pinch up a wall of dough like a crust down the middle of the pie to prevent them from running together and it’s “not a problem.”
• Want to hold, change or add toppings or switch sauces on a signature pizza - we’ll substitute one-for-one with extras costing extra or if you’re getting fewer toppings than normally come on the pizza let’s enter it as a build-your-own to save you $ on those toppings you’re not getting and it’s “not a problem.”

Very simple…Folks that do not like how you do things will go elsewhere…And sorry to say most folks the leave and go elsewhere will not take the time to tell you why…

We use Speedline POS. We can very easily do any size specialty pizza, 1/2 buffalo chicken 1/2 pepperoni. Or 1/2 Buffalo Chicken 1/2 Deluxe. It doesn’t matter what it is, the POS system pretty much handles it all. If the other half isnt a specialty, they still pay full specialty price. It’ll show on our KDS Screens exactly how to make it. Never is an issue.

Speedline also allows for a veggie for a veggie substituion or meat for a meat (Unless any of the toppings are premium instead of regular, then they pay the difference). Or you can set it up to have subs charge.

Easy on the makeline staff too, just read it and make it!

royster13 said:

Very simple…Folks that do not like how you do things will go elsewhere…And sorry to say most folks the leave and go elsewhere will not take the time to tell you why…

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Sorry Royce, but I would have to disagree. We may lose the odd one but many, many people who we have knocked back their request still come in on a regular basis. The ones who leave are usually the ones who kick up a stink and get aggressive because we don’t cave into their want.
What you stated may happen where you are but us Aussies are probably a bit more laid back and accepting of what is what.
Dave

Our system will substitute any item for any other item either whole or half and will subtract the correct amount for the item removed and add the correct amount for the item added whether they are the same price or not. It is all very easy to see on the make-line screen. For us, it is not a source of mistakes or confusion either on the make-line or in pricing… so we give the customer what they want.

Steve said:

We use Speedline POS. We can very easily do any size specialty pizza, 1/2 buffalo chicken 1/2 pepperoni. Or 1/2 Buffalo Chicken 1/2 Deluxe. It doesn’t matter what it is, the POS system pretty much handles it all. If the other half isnt a specialty, they still pay full specialty price. It’ll show on our KDS Screens exactly how to make it. Never is an issue.

Speedline also allows for a veggie for a veggie substituion or meat for a meat (Unless any of the toppings are premium instead of regular, then they pay the difference). Or you can set it up to have subs charge.

Easy on the makeline staff too, just read it and make it!

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Would you mind sharing your Speedline menu with me. I am always looking for new ideas on how to streamline ours better. I love Speedline and would never switch but my only knock on them is they don’t give you a lot of guidance in designing the SLM file. I asked them years ago if I could have copies of other menu files so I could learn from them and they declined my request. I guess they consider the files like intellectual property. I emailed my menu to one of the installers a few years ago and he streamlined it quite a bit but I know it can be better.

We were like Brad. We were in the business of meeting requests if humanly possible … one of our USP’s. Wife in front would disclaimer any really odd requests, like 1/2 pepperoni and 1/2 8 toppings, but we were good at solving the problems that went with it when time permitted … a little foil tent over the pepperoni only half for a couple minutes worked magic. A small piece of dough rolled into a pretty thin rope, pressed into the center of the skin, kept different sauces from running together (cut from that dough ball). We even perfected half/half calzones. Specialties were charged for add-ons … substitutions, I believe we a surcharge, but not a full topping add … keep the number of toppings same, and we would make it work out. We did have POS set to charge a half for the specialties if needed. We would even doe a Works (8 toppings) with 1 slice of pepperoni for one family with a young picky eater. Like I say, we had the time, and it was part of who we were.

Other shops make the business decision to create a multitude of options to choose from and eliminate the customizing. Market and shop identity will drive the decisions. It reduces training and labor costs, reduces errors … my, the errors … and the odd baking times for conveyor guys. Style of oven, kitchen configuration and staff skill will make a huge difference in ability to deal with some of these decisions as well.