20% Drop in Sales Since Dominos Came to Town

[indie_pizza]

Pakula's Pizza:

indie pizza hit the nail right on the head. Drop the most consistent cheese on the market. the one that provides you with the materials to succeed. go find something that will save you thirty cents a pound, totally changing the product that the other 80% of your customers still buy. when Going up against the worst pizza in the world, lower your quallity. great advice. I cant wait to go to restaurant depot in the morning to pick up ketchup to use as my pizza sauce. at least Its cheaper.

What materials do they provide that is worth the several thousand dollars extra a year I have to pay for their product? Some stickers and placemats that promote their product, not mine? You’re missing the part where I mentioned that people are complimenting my cheese after dropping Grande and I’ve not had any consistency issues with the 100% WM mozz that is $.73 less a pound this week.

Why wouldn’t I advocate spending less for a product people like more? Yeah, that’s exactly what you focused on me saying. But hey, why be open minded and have a civil conversation with a peer when you can twist their words and make something negative for you to sneer at. :roll:

 

[Wizzle_Wassell]

Pakula's Pizza:

indie pizza hit the nail right on the head. Drop the most consistent cheese on the market. the one that provides you with the materials to succeed. go find something that will save you thirty cents a pound, totally changing the product that the other 80% of your customers still buy. when Going up against the worst pizza in the world, lower your quallity. great advice. I cant wait to go to restaurant depot in the morning to pick up ketchup to use as my pizza sauce. at least Its cheaper.

so 100% Mozzarella is to Grande as Ketchup is to pizza sauce. Oh I’ve heard it all now. I think you’ve been drinking from the ‘grande cup’ waaaaaay too much now. Sure it may be a high quality cheese but if it were sooo good how come there are so many on this board who keep on telling you its overrated?

Gotta say having just visited the US, the ‘worlds worst pizza’ Domino’s I had beat the local indy (with a good reputation I now see) hands down IMO! Sorry! I’m sure its not the best but it certainly wasn’t the worst.

 

[BCPizza]

What materials do they provide that is worth the several thousand dollars extra a year I have to pay for their product? Some stickers and placemats that promote their product, not mine? You’re missing the part where I mentioned that people are complimenting my cheese after dropping Grande and I’ve not had any consistency issues with the 100% WM mozz that is $.73 less a pound this week.

Why wouldn’t I advocate spending less for a product people like more? Yeah, that’s exactly what you focused on me saying. But hey, why be open minded and have a civil conversation with a peer when you can twist their words and make something negative for you to sneer at.

EXACTLY!

I have tried many many cheeses over the years and firmly believe that the mozz I buy is better than grande… o yeah so did the grande rep and my salesman when we did a blind taste test.

 

[Pakula_s_Pizza]

indie pizza:

Pakula's Pizza:

indie pizza hit the nail right on the head. Drop the most consistent cheese on the market. the one that provides you with the materials to succeed. go find something that will save you thirty cents a pound, totally changing the product that the other 80% of your customers still buy. when Going up against the worst pizza in the world, lower your quallity. great advice. I cant wait to go to restaurant depot in the morning to pick up ketchup to use as my pizza sauce. at least Its cheaper.

What materials do they provide that is worth the several thousand dollars extra a year I have to pay for their product? Some stickers and placemats that promote their product, not mine? You’re missing the part where I mentioned that people are complimenting my cheese after dropping Grande and I’ve not had any consistency issues with the 100% WM mozz that is $.73 less a pound this week.

Why wouldn’t I advocate spending less for a product people like more? Yeah, that’s exactly what you focused on me saying. But hey, why be open minded and have a civil conversation with a peer when you can twist their words and make something negative for you to sneer at. :roll:

You followed your idiotic advice with a snooty " we don’t have to make a profit EVER" as far as I’m concerned the other %99.9999999 of us do need to make a profit. And not just off the four people who like your cheese , but enough people to keep us in business only because not all of us have mommy and daddy to carry us. If your store doesn’t ever make profit, then you don’t have a business. You have a place to go sometimes.

 

[Daddio]

Ladies and Gentlemen lets get this thread back on track please. There are some posts here that I feel the people that posted them should read over and consider editing to make them more conducive to the community we have here. It is not about whether Grande cheese is superior than some other cheese or who needs to make what percentage profit. This is about what to do when you have lost 20% of you business because (or maybe not) Domino’s has opened up in your neighborhood.

 

[indie_pizza]

Daddio:

There are some posts here that I feel the people that posted them should read over and consider editing to make them more conducive to the community we have here. It is not about whether Grande cheese is superior than some other cheese or who needs to make what percentage profit.

I was merely trying to suggest originally something that worked for me that might help the OP cut costs and improve his product. Not sure how that warrents the personal attacks from Pakula.
Pakula's Pizza:

You followed your idiotic advice with a snooty " we don’t have to make a profit EVER" as far as I’m concerned the other %99.9999999 of us do need to make a profit. And not just off the four people who like your cheese , but enough people to keep us in business only because not all of us have mommy and daddy to carry us. If your store doesn’t ever make profit, then you don’t have a business. You have a place to go sometimes.

I don’t have to make a profit (but I do) because my wife has a decent job and we live simply and don’t buy/do things that we can’t afford. So, we can reinvest the money into paying off loans faster and spend more time raising our children instead of paying a babysitter to do it for us. You have no idea where I’ve taken this store from in the last two years since we took it over Once again, why engage in a conversation with me when you can just make assumptions and hurl personal insults instead?

 

[Pakula_s_Pizza]

Ok bro. I think we are done hijacking this thread.

Op- I think it’s time to step back and look at your operation. What is wrong with it? Maybe your meatballs could use some work. Maybe you should change the menu around. First thing I would do is run a report through your pos. Find out what’s selling and what’s not. Maybe it’s time to drop the dead weight and focus on new items. Like adding a new menu full of salads for spring time. Maybe a couple of new pizzas(deep dish, pan pizza, etc).

After you find out what your deficiencies are(we all have them) it’s time to take on your community. Connect with people as the “owner” gain some respect around town. Maybe volunteer your time at the shelter, or give food out at the highschool bball game. You need to gain respect in your community, something that the francises don’t usually do. The gm of your local dominoes would probably go out his way to not get more business, these guys get a salary and that’s what they are worried about. Mailers work but you better be prepared to spend money on printing, mailing, and LABOR.

We have experienced a 100% increase of last year by using those Principals.

 

[Niky_Ds]

What sizes are your pizzas?
the chains market a 14" pie as a “large” most independents call that a small or a medium…

Make sure your customers know what they are getting, they think “large” then they don’t quite remember what your large pie really looks like.

 

[Registered_Guest]

Niky Ds:

What sizes are your pizzas?
the chains market a 14" pie as a “large” most independents call that a small or a medium…

Make sure your customers know what they are getting, they think “large” then they don’t quite remember what your large pie really looks like.

I’ve always wondered why independents do that. It seems like an impossible problem to conquer - the perception of what a small, medium and large pizza is. Kind of like when people ask for a “Meat Lovers” pizza. Pizza Hut made sure that when people think of a pizza with all meat on it, it would be referred to as a “Meat Lovers”. Just like asking for a “kleenex”.

If everyone thinks a large is 14", why would you want to call your 14" pizza a small?

 

[Niky_Ds]

I’ve always wondered why independents do that. It seems like an impossible problem to conquer - the perception of what a small, medium and large pizza is. Kind of like when people ask for a “Meat Lovers” pizza. Pizza Hut made sure that when people think of a pizza with all meat on it, it would be referred to as a “Meat Lovers”. Just like asking for a “kleenex”.

If everyone thinks a large is 14", why would you want to call your 14" pizza a small?
[/quote]

It’s all about marketing and making sure that your customers know the sizes and understand the difference, a pizzeria I’m consulting with , just had a Papa John’s open nearby so i had them start asking to those who order a large pie if they want a PJ large or a regular large, this starts up the conversation and exposes the chain’s use of the term large as a pure marketing strategy, completely independent of the actual size of the pie.

When you ask people if eating 1/2 a large pie is a lot most will agree, at that point you can explain how an indipendent 14.00 large pie will feed 4 normal people while when ordering from a chain you will need 2 $10.00 large pies to accomplisg the same (and usually a 14 bucks independent has a couple of toppings.)

The idea isn’t to match their price, it’s our job to have educated customers, and this is the easies education, because they will come to the conclusion on their own that they are being played.

 

[Registered_Guest]

Niky Ds:

The idea isn’t to match their price, it’s our job to have educated customers, and this is the easies education, because they will come to the conclusion on their own that they are being played.

That’s an odd perception. I don’t think many people with come to the conclusion that they are being played. I think that many people won’t even call because they compare prices based on the word “large” and don’t realize that they are different sizes.

But again, I ask, why try and change the customer? Why can’t an independents 14" pie be called a large instead of a small? Why not eliminate the confusion?

 

[Niky_Ds]

because you’re changing the "perception of the “large” to your 80% loyal customers, ultimately that 80% will come to me or will go to another indie, and if I make drastic changes like resizing my offers, now I will have to educate 80% of my customer base rather than 20%.

someone used to a 16" large calls in and asks for a large, the order is taken and a 14" pie is delivered, that customer is not going to be happy.

educating the defectors about the discrepancy is much more effective and less disruptive to a business than actually changing what you call the pies themselves.

 

[indie_pizza]

Niky Ds:

because you’re changing the "perception of the “large” to your 80% loyal customers, ultimately that 80% will come to me or will go to another indie, and if I make drastic changes like resizing my offers, now I will have to educate 80% of my customer base rather than 20%.

someone used to a 16" large calls in and asks for a large, the order is taken and a 14" pie is delivered, that customer is not going to be happy.

educating the defectors about the discrepancy is much more effective and less disruptive to a business than actually changing what you call the pies themselves.

When we took over our shop, we had a 16" “large” pizza. I got exhausted trying to battle the size perception and finally just started calling it what everyone else in town was, an “extra large”. I didn’t make a big deal about the name change, I just switched it one morning and moved on, never had a single person comment about it.

Since my XL was still priced close to what everyone’s large was and what looks like a long term rise in flour and cheese prices, I recently started thinking it was time to do a price increase. Instead, two weeks ago I added a 14" large to my menu and priced it competitively, changed any daily specials and coupons that said XL to large and moved on. Not a single person has commented about it. I’d be surprised if anyone has really even noticed. We all work with our pies constantly, so we can easily tell the difference in those 2 inches, I doubt the average public does (or even cares that much).

 

[NYFLPizza]

OP back. Looks like this thread has taken off on numerous tangents.

I can happily say that the declining, at least for one week has stopped. After 4 consecutive declining weeks to coincide with the open of Dominos, we just had our best week since December. Wasn’t anything special, but it was a good feeling to have a better week than the previous four. We’re still slower than we should be but we have a lot planned for the next few weeks.

---

1. We just got our Beer and Wine license. Domino’s can’t match that.
2. Our menu is almost done. We’ll probably do a direct mailer of about 2,000 homes, and everyone in town will now know about all of our new additions that were missing from the old menu like beer, wings and desserts. These direct mailers will also have a few coupons attached. This is the most expensive of all the advertising. 21.7 cents per direct mailer. This is our full 3 fold menu created by CFM Concepts. Total $434.
3. We just got some magnets made. Once they come in every customer for a few weeks is going to receive a magnet and a box topper coupon. 2,500 magnets, total $254 plus cost of box toppers which should be about $50.
4. In a few days we’ll be running a competition for employees. I’ll give each of them coupons to hand out. Each one that’s redeemed I’ll give a small kickback to the employee who gave it out. The person who gets the most returned will get a small bonus. Employees will also get as many people to join us on facebook as they can. This is just the price of printing flyers. Should be < $100
5. I’m going to have a few thousand fliers printed out. We have a Walmart across the street and I’m going to have my employees tag the cars with some aggressive coupons. Should also be < $100
6. My Roma rep is going to hook us up with a trial run of Valpak. We’ll hit 10,000 homes with some sort of coupon in early March.

I’m looking at about spending $900 or so on advertising that should cover a lot of ground.

I’m also looking through Reventions customer tracking. Unfortunately we have to organize a few things as we typically don’t take the proper zip code as it’s usually not necessary to find the home. After we organize the entries we’ll figure out the best way to use them.

 

[Daddio]

I urge you to use caution tagging cars. In my city there is a bylaw against it and I know WalMart frowns on it as well. Plus if you get a grumpy old man like me you may tick him off enough that he will go any place BUT yours.

 

[brad_randall]

Just got my “results” back from my mailing guy for last month:

I am setting up the programs to give you the number of 30/60/90 customers that appear in the active group and used the data from the last mailing - here are the numbers

mailed 3,729
returns 1,368

Clearly, that is not a direct return. I can’t attribute all those customers reactivating to the post-card mailing. Many are likely just ones who order pizza less than once per month and would have ordered anyways. I still like to think that putting our marketing materials in their hands decreases the likelihood that they will jump ship.

NYFLPizza:

I’m also looking through Reventions customer tracking. Unfortunately we have to organize a few things as we typically don’t take the proper zip code as it’s usually not necessary to find the home. After we organize the entries we’ll figure out the best way to use them.

A mailing house should be able to take those addresses, clean them up and assign the proper zip codes to them.

 

[royster13]

Does your marketing stand out when compared to the chains?..

I just got home from San Diego and while the only frame of reference was the motels rooms, Domino’s sure stood out…They were all over the materials in the room…Key cards, phone plates, menus, direct dial phone button, etc…The Domino’s menu was an 11 x 17 tri-fold in full colour…There were a couple other indy menus shoved under the door…But they were 1 colour 4 1/2 x 11 sheets with so much jammed on them the printing was hard to read…And I saw those Domino’s delivery cars come frequently…All lit up with car toppers…

 

[NYFLPizza]

royster13:

Does your marketing stand out when compared to the chains?..

I just got home from San Diego and while the only frame of reference was the motels rooms, Domino’s sure stood out…They were all over the materials in the room…Key cards, phone plates, menus, direct dial phone button, etc…The Domino’s menu was an 11 x 17 tri-fold in full colour…There were a couple other indy menus shoved under the door…But they were 1 colour 4 1/2 x 11 sheets with so much jammed on them the printing was hard to read…And I saw those Domino’s delivery cars come frequently…All lit up with car toppers…

To be honest, no, probably not. I’d imagine the only thing that will help me stand out will be the frequency I am going to try and hit people with it. We don’t have the funds to produce these massive colorful flyers that the Domino’s does unfortunately.