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Vernon;
Both will work well after 24 to 36-hours in the cooler. I don’t know if you need to go as long as 72-hours.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
 
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Vernon;
Yes, there is a difference in formulation between room temperature fermented dough and cold fermented dough as well as differences in flavor of the finished crusts. Most people will agree that the cold ferment provides for the best flavored crust, not to mention the improved handling/forming properties associated with the cold ferment process.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
 
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Hi Tom
I noticed on the thin crust recipe that the was no sugar in it. I tried the recipe in the recipe bank, and noticed that my crust were going dark brown, this did not happen on the first two or three pizza’s we cooked, but happened on the next 3. I use corn meal to dust the dough, on the first three, and on the first one that browned, then changed back to flower on the last two, but this made no diffrence. Then I thought about the sugar, well not me but someone else pointed it out.

I will try the recipe you gave me here tomorrow, and see how that goes
 
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Hello Tom

We have been in the pizza business for 23 years and have done very well over the years. Just I switched one of our locations from using a HCM for dough to a Spiral Mixer. The dough bakes up great, perfect texture, taste, color, and rise. The only problem I’m having is bubbles. Mainly around the edge and in the middle of the pizza if its a 1 topping pizza. We do not bring the dough out early to warm it up and never have in the past. We have never had a problem with bubbles with the HCM dough. This is also impractical because we do an early morning order that we start at 630 am.

The biggest diference in the doughs is the finished mix temp. 88 to 90 with the HCM and 78 to 80 with the Spiral. I have tried to adjust for this by letting it proof longer before moving it to the walkin to cool ( 45 min to 75 min ) but it does not seem to make a big diference.

I’m also trying to switch from ADY to IDY and have run most of my spiral batches with the IDY. Have you ever heard of IDY causing more bubbles?

My water % is high compared to most dough recipes 62% with a 13% flour. Does this need to be lowered with the spiral mixer?

Here’s my processes:

VCM

13% flour 100%
water 62%
salt 1.75%
sugar 1%
oil 3%
ADY .5% ( suspended in 105 degree water for 5 min )

Mix 75 seconds, cut and roll, place in tray, proof for 30 min at room temp, cool and downstack 4 hours later.

Spiral
Same recipe but with .35% IDY
Mix 2 min slow, add oil, mix 4 min fast, cut roll, place in tray, proof for 60 to 75 min at room temp, cool and downstack.

Thanks for your time. I have read every article and post you have ever written so I’m looking for something new here. 🙂

David Kenney
Pizza Pirates
[email protected]
pizzapirates.net
951 265 0503 cell
 
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Hi Tom,

We are a few months away from opening up our first pick-up/delivery pizzeria, and we have decided to use frozen dough balls. I’ve read a lot about people using retarders and proofers, but I was just planning on placing several trays of frozen dough balls in the refrigerator overnight and maybe pulling them out into room temperature for about 30min-1hr before I sent them down the prep line. Am I wrong for thinking that the process will be that simple? Will I need a retarder rather than regular refrigeration?

Thanks in advance for your help,

Jason Dove
 
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I am not Tom Lehmann, but I can offer my experience with frozen dough balls. First the handling. I found that they are inadequately slacked and consitioned over one night. they are usable, but not at their best. 48 hours in the fridge is best . . . 24 hours to slack/thaw out and 24 hours to condition and ferment into flavorful base. That is one tip to using frozen; I used Rich’s for 7 years. That 30 to 45 minute temper is crucial to make them easily shaped, and avoid blisters.

Now characteristics I have found:
  1. They cost 2 to 3 times what fresh dough costs. A mixer will pay for itself inside a year at modest volume. You will overpay about 70 cents on a 23oz ball. When you add in shredding your own cheese and saving 20 to 30 cents a pound doing it . . . that mixer gets afforable fast. I have found three that I can get delivered for less than $4500 . . . 2 for $2100 (though one without the hub for shredder attachment). Shop, and it is findable.
  2. Consistancy of shape is nonexistent. they try, and they often do come in rounded, but there are a LOT of them that come in ovoid and oblong and difficult to shape.
  3. Size variation is sizable compared to your own scaling. I occasionally would get a load of 23oz balls that all weighed less than 21oz. Or 9oz balls that actully ran 7 to 7.5 oz. Sure they through in a couple to make case weight, but those ounces hurt in dough performance.
  4. You are vulnerable to handling issues THRICE: once when at the man8facturer (did they cool it exactly right?); once at distributor receiving and storing; and once on the delivery truck. That last one is a KEY . . . if you are on the end of the truck, that dough may have slacked a little and refrozen a couple times on that truck in July/August. If they get humidity i there and some condensation on those boxes, then they collapse and are hard to handle or fall apart . . . then how will you store them in your shop? I found ways, but damn.
  5. We would get the odd couple in a case that would only stretch in one direction, meaning we could get a 7" wide and 20" long crust easy-peasy . . . 16" round was an act of God. It just adds to the trouble.
  6. If you run short or have a cooler go down and you just find it when you come in to open . . . you got no precious few options for ‘emergency dough’. You are way vulnerable. Same if your cooler runs a little warm and the dough proofs quicker than you expect . . . just a dicey game.
  7. Leavening is tricky to control and predict. Manufacturers over pitch yeast to account for death of cells in the freezing. If they get an efficient freeze, then that dough is fast rising. If they get a slower freeze or more cell death, then slower. It creates another piece of management to have to work with/around.
These are all adding up to more time and effort to handle and manage. I always had twice the dough I needed for the day . . . sitting in a cooler. Wednesday I had to pull out enough for Friday AND make sure I had enough left for Thursday. It is just an art and science to manage costs and losses for dough. If you don’t use it by the third day, then it really hurts if you gotta scrap it . . . . find ways to use it! Pretzels, rolls, zeppole, cinnamon rolls, flatbreads, anything for that dough that gets a little too tired for pizza. At >$1.20 for a 23oz (16") ball, it killed me to through out dough, so I obsessed over counts and prepping/thawing dough.

Not to run you off dough, I hope this gives you insights on items to track and be prepared for in using the frozen convenience dough.
 
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Nick is right on with his insight…

I would add tho, Roma has their own line that is pretty good…it comes in a poly-pack vs plastic bags, so it keeps it’s shape much better…

Slacking out in traditional dough boxes is quite doable too…tastes good, good shelf life in the cooler…
 
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Tom Lehmann:
Submit your questions here.
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Hello, very sorry, I just started to do the pizza, it is not clear the dough to do better, please provide the dough recipe and video, then I would appreciate your trouble you sent to my mailbox: [email protected]k you very much!
 
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Hello Tom Lehman, your loyal fans are very pleased to know you, know what you wrote is very exciting, because I just started doing pizza, has not yet begun to shop but I would like to learn how to do the bestpizza dough as well as video tutorials, I am very happy, how to get that information?Once again, thank you!
 
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Hey Tom,

First off all sorry for my bad english, still learning.

I’m writing you from Venezuela.
I was looking for information about conveyor ovens for a starting pizza business and found your name everywhere. Then using google and your name and wow… I read every day recipes, reviews and everything about pizza making from you.

Today I noted a video on youtube about an Avantec Conveyor and decided to contact you.

I have a question for you, maybe is more an electrical thing that a pizza thing but I’m sure you know about
I have a selection of 3 ovens (Only 3 after reading an article from you about baking time in conveyors)

Middleby Marshall PS-520 Electric Countertop Oven $4957
Rated 8300 Watts
18" Belt with 20" Cooking Chamber
Heat: air impingement on top and bottom

Lincoln Impinger 2500 Series Ovens $5000
Rated 6000 Watts
16" Belt with 20" Cooking Chamber
Heat: air impingement on top and bottom

Star Holman HSCO16 Turbo-Max $6000
Rated 15900 Watts
16" Belt with 20" Cooking Chamber
Heat: air impingement combined with toasting elements on top and bottom

So, Tom… You as an Expert in Pizza…
Which one will you choose (Energy consumption is not a problem)? and why?

Do you have a better option? My budget for oven is max $7000

Will two Star Holman HX214 14"x16.75" 4000 watts (infrared heat) be more effective than any one of the previously mentioned ovens?

Thanks a lot,
Miguel Ledezma from Venezuela
 
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Hello, Tom Lehman, one of China’s first started Pisa young man named Guo Peide heard so much about your name, I know your dough technology is very good, would like to ask to share with me your dough recipe, because I want a delicious pizza in order to survive in this competitive environment, thank you Tom Lehman.Can be sent to my mailbox?God bless you!
 
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Hi Tom,
My question is regarding wings. As of now we buy raw wings for our pizza restaurant and lightly season them with salt and pepper and bake them in our bakers pride pizza over and store them in the walk in. We reheat them in oven when ordered then put on sauce of choice like barbecue etc. The problem is they are not as good as they could be and would like some advice on a different baking method, seasoning etc or how to prepare them differently. They seem dried out and no flavor.
 
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Hi Tom,
i would like to ask, if a wanted to make a dough with 10 kg of flour using a biga, how much biga would i need to make the dough and what is the proper procedure to make the dough?
Your input is always welcome. best regards Joede
 
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Hi Tom, I’m remodeling my shop and adding pizza, I have very limited space and I’ve been looking at maybe getting a electric stone counter top oven by bakers pride like so…

http://www.katom.com/455-P24S.html?zmam … ID=pla&kw={keyword}&gclid=CKS9s9CszLECFQLOKgodrF0ADA

So my question is, Are those good ovens,for fresh dough? I like my crust crispy, are they gonna produce the same quality as a gas oven?

thank you.
 
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Hi tom

i have a question about dough that is white on the bottom after cooking instead of the golden brown that i want. in the winter time i dont have a problem. only in the summer time i have this problem if i use the dough from the day before. if i use the dough from the same day the bottom is perfectly fine . i make my dough let it rise for a few hours
and then i ball it. i then let it rise for an hour more. then i put it in the cooler uncovered because it is too warm and i want to let it cool down. i keep it uncovered for a few hours to let it get cool enough to cover. when i make the dough in the summer time i have tried cool water to help but i dont think that is helping. am i leaving the dough out to long in the refrigerator to long?
 
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Hi tom we have changed our bus plan and going to be a mobile trailer with a wood fired oven space and weight is the issue
i will only use one 25 kg bag of oo flour if i get a 30 qt mixer how many matchs with i have to make dont have a comm space yet one of my supplier gave me this one said it will work its a omcan sp20 spiral mix rate 44lbs cap http://www.omcan.com/doughmixer_sheeter … ixers.html will this be good or the sp30 model thank jb
 
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