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dp24

New member
Hi everyone

I am just a newbie researching the pizza biz. I have been self employed for over 20 years in the fields of marketing, sales and accounting. I have been researching several areas of the pizza world and have quickly realized how complex it really can be with all the decisions to make. ie: POS, ovens, dough equipment, telecommunications etc. I am now getting more serious about the possibility of diving in head first. I am slow to commit (took me 20 years to marry my wife…lol). Anyhow on to my questions.

I have been leaning towards the Avantec style conveyors with split belt model 3242-2 , however when I try and contact the company I am getting no reply. Emails not returned and when I called an authorized agent they had discontinued selling the ovens. I have yet to even learn the price of this oven. I am in Canada only 1 mile from Michigan so I have no issue as I having a shipping location in Mi and the ovens are CSA. The 800 number is saying not in service here in Canada however that may not be the case they just may have Canada filtered out from the 800 service. Can someone please let me know how they can be contacted or if they are still in business…if not does anyone know of other split belt conveyors that are decent quality and price?

Thanks for your help
 
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I’ve never come across an Avantec but perhaps other have. The fact that you can’t find anyone who sells them should be a great big hint to you.

There are LOADS of split conveyors. Look at any of the major conveyor ovens and most (if not all) have a split belt option. I suggest you start looking at all of the major suppliers. Take a quick look down the main TT page and you’ll see a few recent discussion about ‘which oven should I consider’ which will give you some names etc.
 
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I just got off the phone with the owner of Avantec (Dave). I got his cell phone number from the rep that is no longer selling the equipment. I have read on here how the Avantec is top rated so that is why I am chasing them down. They do not offer distribution in Canada however they do have some ovens in Toronto. Dave was very helpful however before I buy I would need to speak to 5 or so clients. Dave was quoting about $17,500 for the 3242-2 split belts. Also as a new option they are offering split belts in many different widths like 20" beside a 12". This oven seems like what I am looking for I just want to get some feedback from others to help push me over the top…or steer me in a better direction with personal experience.

Thanks
 
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royster13:
dp24 you might want to ask a few more questions about the CSA certification…The spec sheet says CSA US
http://www.csa-international.org/product_areas/hazloc_equip/hazloc_for_north_america/
CSA operates testing facilities in the US, hence the US version of their mark…

And, if you do go with that oven, is a repair tech available in your market?..
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Thanks for your input. I discussed the warranty issue and Dave was straight with no real sales pitch. No service warranty in Canada. He stated he would do the the same as he did for his Toronto customer and allow me to purchase any possble problem parts at cost and have them on hand. Dave then stated that in the event of failure his tech fellow could talk another service tech through replacement. The part is then sent back and they will forward a free part.

It really is a little convoluted and I will be looking at other ovens before I make my choice, Avantec just seemed to be pretty nice for 17500.
 
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Be careful about opening with just a single 3242-2. While this will give you a marginally decent capacity depending on you cook time, all you need is one relay to fail and you are shut down till it’s repaired. You would be much better off spending a little more money and getting two 3242-1 ovens which gives you the same capacity as the 3242-2 but the security of two ovens. Conveyor ovens sometimes fail, there’s a lot more to them than a deck oven. If you can’t trace electrical issues or diagnose gas valve problems, you’ll more than likely wish you had a second oven. There are many other oven companies that are more proven than Avantec out there that you really should look at.
 
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You have to send the broken part back 1st?..

And them shipping something to you may be easy at their end, however, sometimes getting into Canada may not go that smooth…Sometimes Canada Customs can find all kinds of obscure rules that slows down your package clearing customs…Does not happen all the time, but when “Murphy” gets involved, he always seems to rear his “ugly head” when folks are most desperate…And your oven is sitting there not working…

I have no idea about Aventec, however, they have made a business decision to not distribute their products in Canada…So in my mind there is a risk in going with them…Best to find a brand that is supported in Canada with both parts stock and service techs…
 
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Ok… so you are suppose to purchase this oven, and then, at cost, purchase any possible problem parts to have on hand just in case of a failure, and you get no warranty in Canada, but he will send you a replacement part for your broken one after you pay your service tech to repair his defective oven with the replacement part that you now keep in stock at your pizza/oven parts warehouse/restaurant? Are you really even considering ordering one of these ovens? This does not sound like a little headache, this sounds like a situation where your wife that it took 20 years to marry leaves you. 😉
 
I know most peeps would say no way…but the oven gets great reviews from Tom Lehmann on this site. Buying a headache is not what I am looking for. Since I live 1 mile from Michigan and have a shipping location in Mi I am not really worried about customs… I regularly buy business supplies and pick them up in Mi. If the oven checks out with the Toronto folks that use it and the company holds up to the promise of parts being covered, I would think having parts on site may result in far quicker turn around for repair. Dang I started doing the same thing with my furnace at home and my shop…I bought hot surface ignitors flame sensors and computer boards for them. That has proved to have saved me 1500 plus bucks over the last 5 years…one service call for a hot surface ignitor was 350.00 bucks…I learned quick.

Does anyone have any hands on with Avantec?

Can you point me in the direction of an oven that offers similar specs for around 17k?

I am liking the Avantec and the XLT but would really like user experience input for these ovens…it would be greatly appreciated…

Thanks
Tom Lehmann:
Tony;
A reasonable solution might be one of the new, high efficiency air impingement ovens in conjunction with the Hearth Bake Disk from Lloys Pans. Properly set up, this wil give you a hearth baked characteristic on your pizzas that is essentially identical to that which you get from baking right on the hearth of a deck oven. The bake time for these pizzas will be consistent at 5.5 to 6-minutes (once you find the time, it will be consistent at that time). Best of all is the relatively small foot print of these ovens. You should be contacting any of the following to find out more about their ovens (XLT, Edge, Avantec, Middleby-Marshall, Lincoln) They can also tell you about the Hesrth Bake Disks too.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
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Tom Lehmann:
As for me, you could put Avantec, Edge, Lincoln, Middleby-Marshall, and XLT all in a bag, shake it up and I’d be comfortable using the first one to fall out. But that’s me, one of the manufacturers might have a feature that really rings your chimes, and that would be the one to consider. And remember to take a long hard look at the Hearth Bake Disk from Lloyd Pans to get that authentic hearth baked appearance to your impingement oven baked pizzas.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
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Tom Lehmann:
These “new generation” ovens will date back about 18-months or so. They are worth the extra money in energy efficiency alone, especially in a trailer setting. If capacity is what you want, look at the Avantec ovens, but any of the new ones such as Lincoln’s FastBake, Middleby-Marshall’s WoW, PESI Pro-Comp series, XLT, and Edge would be a great asset. For the most part, you should be able to snag a new one for around $12,000.00 or a little more, but you will get the difference back in energy savings, which is pretty substancial. I’d be contacting these companies to get their perspective as to oven size and operating cost on propane. We did a very crude test, actually, we were supposed to have an electric oven for use at the Orlando Pizza Show and we got one set up for propane. The largest bottle they would allow into the show hall was 5-pounds. Guess what? We ran the oven, pretty well at full tilt for nearly 2.5-hours on a single 5-pound bottle of propane gas. If you would have asked me before we actually ran the oven, I would have guestimated an operating time of about 30-minutes, at best. Boy, was I ever surprised! I’m betting that any of the above mentioned ovens are on par with this type of efficiency.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
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Tom Lehmann:
The Lloyd Pans Hearth Bake Disks when combined with one of the new, high efficiency air impingement ovens will provide a bake that is so close to that of a hearth bake that I have had to bake the pizzas right in front of the doubters to convince them that the pizza was actually baked in the air impingement oven. In the older style ovens you can still achieve a hearth baked characteristic, but it isn’t quite as good or convincing. As for the production numbers, this will depend to a great extent upon your pizzas and the baking time. Most pizzas will bake in the 5 to 5.5-minute range with one of the new, high efficiency ovens, while the older technology ovens will bake the same pizza in the 6 to 6.5-minute range. Where the new ovens really shine is when we are baking both thin and thick crust pizzas, with these ovens you can normally bake both of them side by side. The new, high efficiency ovens that we have had a chance to evaluate so far have been Avantec, XLT/BOFI, Lincoln FastBake, Middleby-Marshall WOW, and the PESI Pro BAKE Series. Put them all in a bag, shake them up real well, turn the bag over, and whichever one falls out first I could be very happy with.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
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Tom Lehmann:
From your post, it looks like you want the bake of a deck oven and the speed and convenience of an air impingement oven. We have just recently had the opportunity to do a side by side comparison of some of the new, high efficiency air impingement ovens. Included in this evaluation were the Missleby Marshall WOW, XLT, PESI PRO, and the Avantec. I have previously evaluated the Lincoln FastBake, so I feel confident including it in this post. When combined with the Lloyd’s Pans Hearth Bake Disks, and properly profiled for your product line, you can put these ovens in a bag and shake them out, and be happy with the bake from any of them. Yes, there certainly are differences between them that might influence your selection like George has mentioned, but wen it comes to quality of bake, they are all shoulder to shoulder. Just make sure you have your entire product line in place when your oven is delivered so they can profile it specifically to your product line. The amazing thing about these ovens is their flexability once you have them set up properly, They will do thin crust, thick crust, desserty pizzas and calzones all at the same time and temperature, regardless of the number of toppings, in most cases you can also do breadsticks at the same temperature, but you might need a split conveyor as the baking time will probably be a little shorter. These ain’t the air impingement ovens of the past.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
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dp24:
I would think having parts on site may result in far quicker turn around for repair. Dang I started doing the same thing with my furnace at home and my shop…I bought hot surface ignitors flame sensors and computer boards for them.
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This is a good idea regardless of whether you are nearby a service shop or not. I keep several spare equipment parts on hand at my stores. I’m out a little bit of cash that’s sitting on my shelves but I’m not afraid of losing a critical component on a Friday night and not having access to parts until Monday. I have my sheeter, ovens, exhaust fans and computers backed up with parts prone to failure.

This is actually one of the selling points of the XLT ovens - they are built primarily with off the shelf parts available from Grainger. It’s part of what steered me to put the XLT in my new store.
 
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dp24:
I know most peeps would say no way…but the oven gets great reviews from Tom Lehmann on this site.
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It is one of a number which get great reviews including XLT, Edge, Middleby-Marshall and Lincoln (as you point out - but not in bold) so maybe worth seeing if those have a warranty/service proposition in Canada.

I have a double deck of MM in one shop and XLT in my other and both have had issues in their first year. Even with a full warranty I’ve had hassle with getting the engineer out, getting parts (they don’t always carry everything) etc etc but I sure wouldn’t want the hassle of getting my local tech guy to come in and talk through the issue, identify and remove the part then ship to somewhere else, wait for a return piece, get my tech guy in to install. That seems like a BIG headache.
 
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I am on the border and do about 140 trips a year over and back to pick up products…

Most of the time it is painless but every so often I run into a Border Services Agent that thinks they need to earn their “brownie” points and give me grief…They pick apart incomplete invoices…They inspect for country of origin labels…They point out that I do not have exactly the number of cartons as indicated on the invoices…They ask for NAFTA paperwork…Etc. Etc…

No matter how I slice it, I can not see that the “risk” is worth the “reward”…

PS…Are those ovens even legal in Canada?..
 
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royster13:
I am on the border and do about 140 trips a year over and back to pick up products…

Most of the time it is painless but every so often I run into a Border Services Agent that thinks they need to earn their “brownie” points and give me grief…They pick apart incomplete invoices…They inspect for country of origin labels…They point out that I do not have exactly the number of cartons as indicated on the invoices…They ask for NAFTA paperwork…Etc. Etc…

No matter how I slice it, I can not see that the “risk” is worth the “reward”…

PS…Are those ovens even legal in Canada?..
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I hear ya with the border agents…

as for legal…legal yes… will your insurance cover the building if the place burns down?..that is another issue.
 
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After reading Tom’s quotes in this thread I would choose another oven. One that has a warranty. After all he said they are all the same to him. At least thats what I got out of all of his remarks. That is my advice on your purchase.
 
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Regarding the Avantec Ovens.
I’ve personally evaluated it and I found it to be shoulder to shoulder with any of the other new, high efficiency air impingement ovens. I recently made the statement that you could put al lof the new, high efficiency, air impingement ovens in a bag, shake them up and I would be happy with the first one to fall out, they’re all that good. You should contact each of the oven companies to become familiar with their ovens, and what makes them different from the other manufacturers, then, make your decision.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
 
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I would like to clarify some of issues that were brought up in this post.
First of all, Avantec does have a warranty on all of its conveyor ovens: Two year parts and labor.
To hear more from customers who actually use Avantec Ovens, visit the website. http://www.avantecovens.com
 
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Caroline I do not think anyone said there was no warranty, rather that it might be hard to access if an oven bought in the US was brought into Canada…

So are warranty repairs available in Canada?..Further your website says Export warranty is subject to restrictions…Do these apply to Canada and if so, what are the restrictions?..
 
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