Can your drivers carry on the job?

[system]

paul7979:

gregster:

paul7979:

Gregster deserves 100% of what comes at him on this site.

That’s just it Paul, it’s not about me! It’s about tens of thousands of drivers who face dangerous conditions and policies that say ‘do not resist’ and that you may not be armed to protect yourself’, but the company is not liable if anything happens to you. Take this money and food and go drive out into the dark and we sure hope you make it back alive.

Paul, do you have drivers? Do YOU allow your drivers to be armed Paul? What policies do you have to protect drivers that help you make a profit?

Oh, and if you get outraged at the dangerous conditions, go find a company who will look the other way, but not openly support you defending yourself. Oh, and if we short you on mileage, well, ‘it’s tough all over’.

I’m fed up with the people in charge saying ‘deal with it’ and ‘stop complaining.’ I am using every opportunity available to be to get the word out. Others will hear me. Owners and managers will hate me or think twice before they make their next decision. Drivers will hear me too. If my words encourage even just one driver to stand up and fight, then it is all worth it.

I’d love to see the ones opposing me here invite their drivers to read all of what I have posted. But then that would not be in your best interests, would it? What would your employees say if they read your opinions here? Probably best we don’t find out…

So after reading this I have decided to institute the following policies to ensure driver safety:

1. Provide store supplied cell phones to any driver who wants one for their shift
2. Confirm EVERY phone number via caller ID or callbacks
3. Don’t deliver to the ghetto after dark
4. Don’t deliver to the really bad ghetto at any time day or night
5. Encourage firearm training/instruction to all employees(and anyone else for that matter) who is interested
6. Encourage and even assist any interested employees in getting their CCW
7. Get rid of any policy not allowing firearms for those with a CCW

Oh wait, I’ve had these policies for over 10 years! Darn Gregster, I guess all that yelling till you’re red in the face isn’t really changing the world. Sorry, I thought I had a glimmer of hope for you.

Wizzle Wassell:

Instead of attacking EVERYONE on this firum without knowing facts about who you are accusing (yet again) why not simple ask who allows and who doesn’t thats a much more constructive method.

Does your store policy knowingly allow delivery drivers to carry guns while on the job?

 

[steveo922]

Our state does not allow ANYONE to carry except trained professionals.

 

[system]

steveo922:

Our state does not allow ANYONE to carry except trained professionals.

So if they are “trained professionals” then it is allowed at work?

 

[steveo922]

gregster:

So if they are “trained professionals” then it is allowed at work?

Trained professionals as in police officers, state troopers, government officials, armored car personnel, security personnel etc. Illinois has tons of very strict laws regarding carrying a weapon for the general public.

You can drive around with a registered weapon as long as its in the trunk, in a locked box, with the clips and ammo separate.

 

[dman66]

Every company should at least adapt a “Don’t ask, don’t tell” policy with regards to this sensitive issue…

I supose I could carry, but choose not to…Since carrying a concealed firearms could “probably” better your chances with regards towards safetly & self preservation measures…

I feel be it a company has a “no guns” work policy or not, if a driver is hell bent on carrying, he/she will carry, no matter what the company policy says…

 

[Wizzle_Wassell]

I’m sort of in Steveo’s position in that only police officers can carry.

I think you need a 3rd option - ‘the law doesn’t allow it’ otherwise I guess you’ll misinterpret the results.

 

[system]

So in Illinois the criminals can be fairly certain that delivery drivers are unarmed. Doesn’t sound very safe to me. Am I wrong, or is gun crime against delivery drivers low in Illinois?

 

[steveo922]

gregster:

So in Illinois the criminals can be fairly certain that delivery drivers are unarmed. Doesn’t sound very safe to me. Am I wrong, or is gun crime against delivery drivers low in Illinois?

I’m sure it happens.

But again with the whole danger thing… What are you suggesting drivers/owners to do to prevent such an action? Even if they were armed or able to carry, do you really think that stops people from attempting to rob a driver? Robbers are scum, they don’t think about the consequences. That is why they still rob liquor store folks even though its LEGAL to possess a weapon at a place of business.

 

[system]

steveo922:

What are you suggesting drivers/owners to do to prevent such an action?

Well, that IS a good question.

What procedures/policies SHOULD be in place to minimize crime and increase safety for drivers?

If stores were legally liable for injuries/deaths of drivers while on the road, THAT would be a HUGE help. Since store are never held financially liable for what happens to drivers for what happens to them on the road, there is little real incentive for them to enact and/or enforce policies that can eliminate or greatly reduce crime against drivers.

For the owners here, do you know what your delivery safety policies are? Are they written down? Are they up to date and correct? Are they followed? Are they enforced? Do all of the pertinent employees even know them? The phone people? The newest driver?

What is your policy for marking ‘no go’ areas? Is it ‘Proactive’ or ‘Reactive’? What input do drivers have on it? What are the criteria for adding or removing areas/streets? Do you have a line of cooperation with police ready and set up if ‘suspicious orders’ are received?

What am I forgetting?

 

[Wizzle_Wassell]

gregster:

Since store are never held financially liable for what happens to drivers for what happens to them on the road, there is little real incentive for them to enact and/or enforce policies that can eliminate or greatly reduce crime against drivers.

oh come on now a business is NOT held financially liable?? your just making this up now gregster. You have such a bitter view of this business you just can’t help yourself now can you - what absolute rubbish!

 

[system]

Wizzle Wassell:

gregster:

Since store are never held financially liable for what happens to drivers for what happens to them on the road, there is little real incentive for them to enact and/or enforce policies that can eliminate or greatly reduce crime against drivers.

oh come on now a business is NOT held financially liable?? your just making this up now gregster. You have such a bitter view of this business you just can’t help yourself now can you - what absolute rubbish!

Are you saying stores are, or should be held liable for delivery driver deaths while on delivery?

So when a delivery driver gets killed while making a delivery, the stores are held liable? Can you cite an example?

 

[Wizzle_Wassell]

gregster:

Wizzle Wassell:

gregster:

Since store are never held financially liable for what happens to drivers for what happens to them on the road, there is little real incentive for them to enact and/or enforce policies that can eliminate or greatly reduce crime against drivers.

oh come on now a business is NOT held financially liable?? your just making this up now gregster. You have such a bitter view of this business you just can’t help yourself now can you - what absolute rubbish!

Are you saying stores are, or should be held liable for delivery driver deaths while on delivery?

So when a delivery driver gets killed while making a delivery, the stores are held liable? Can you cite an example?

notice how now we are talking specifically about being killed!

You said a Business is NEVER liable - If a business is at fault an an employee is injuryed or killed whilst the employee is carryout their work then the business would be liable.

Can I cite an example where someone has been killed - nope as I’ve, thankfully, had no personal contact with one of these dreadful situations. But where an employee is injured, or killed as a direct result of employer/business negligence then yep there are plenty of cases. Plenty of employee’s take legal action for injury or incorrect termination so if buinesses are NEVER liable then all of these cases get settled by???

So in answer to your comment about drivers on the road maybe in these issues the business is not held liable as they are not negligent?

 

[Dox47]

Interestingly enough, the last few places I worked at had nothing in their employee agreements specifically addressing employee carry, though I imagine that they wouldn’t have been thrilled to discover that I was carrying at work. I’ve always thought that “don’t ask don’t tell” is the best policy on this one, it provides a certain amount of insulation for the shop while allowing the drivers discretion on taking care of themselves out there. Not that a firm no carry policy would have stopped me, but under a DADT I at least am not guaranteed to be fired for defending myself. What I find completely indefensible are no weapon policies that won’t even allow drivers to carry pepper spray, or a bat in their car (apparantly Domino’s is unaware of tire irons…). As I’ve mentioned before, the worst that can happen with a spray is that someone get’s sprayed and sues, no death, no permanent injury if it accidentally goes off, but the risk of losing some money is more important to some than the safety of their drivers. Factor in the political cave in on “redlining”, and it starts to sound like criminal negligence to me…

 

[thepizza]

While I do have my CCW license myself and encourage others to obtain theirs as well, and as much as I hate to say it - I think allowing drivers to carry is not the best idea - at least here in Ohio.

We have too many restrictions on where you may carry, such as 1000 ft within a school zone, courthouse, police dpt, sheriff dpt, class d restaurants, and many of our local businesses prohibit concealed carry on their property. Our drivers would be constantly locking their firearm in the car all day long as we are at the schools numerous times each day, at the courthouse, police dpts, post office, bank, etc… The drivers would always be handing the firearm rather than delivering pizza.

All of our drivers and managers were given the option to take a pepper spray training course by a certified instructor and given a pepper spray/kubaton (all company paid for). Most opted to carry one. It is our strict policy to protect yourself from harm NOT protect the money from theft. Let the robber have the money, only spray or attack them if you fear for your safety and cannot escape the situation. While me personally I would love to spray and beat the snot out of a guy who asks for my money, it is businesses and I need to protect it from a frivolous lawsuit. I don’t want drivers spraying everyone who is lurking around the corner - I will be out of business.

Our safety policies are all down on paper and drivers have the final say on any suspicious situations.

We as business owners are fully liable for the safety and protection of our drivers. If one gets killed or injured in a robbery, we will be on the hook with Workers Comp as well as OSHA. We are ALSO responsible for the actions of our drivers while on the clock, if we permit a driver to carry and he shoots and kills the robber as well as the little girl behind him - I will be out of business.

Employees who carry are allowed to have their firearms on company property, however when they are on the clock it must be either in their car or put in the office safe. I just don’t want it lying around where others can have access to it.

 

[Dox47]

When I carried at work, no one ever made me, and the gun never was off my person unless I was taking a delivery to the jail and had to go through the metal detectors. I did a lot of campus deliveries, and while carry on campus is technically prohibited, the courts have supported a dropping off / picking up exception for parents that carry, which IMO should apply to dropping off food as well. We never went into the dormitories, we’d call from the curb and have the student meet us at the building entrance, so we were only minimally on campus property and only briefly at that. My way of thinking was that the only way anyone was ever going to know that I’d carried onto school property was if I had to use the gun, which means I was in a lethal force scenario, in which case I’d be more than willing to deal with the misdemeanor afterward that I’d probably beat anyway. Same thing with bars, I was in them so briefly dropping off the food that the chances of being caught carrying were extremely minimal, so the gun stayed on me. Businesses that “prohibit” carry are even more of a no-brainer, the worst they can do is trespass you IF they catch you, which is extremely unlikely if you’re carrying at work all day undetected.

 

[epizza24]

Yeah the signs in the private business’s are completely useless for ccw owners, because all it is a simple trespass charge and that’s only if you refuse to leave with your gun. Even if you take the trespass charge it won’t affect your ccw in anyway, at least not here in Mo. I never leave my gun in the car unless its one of the 5 places you are not allowed to carry like school/church/hospital/police/bars and usually I leave it on when it comes to bars. Unless you are not very good at concealing it the business has no idea you are carrying. i know there is a group here in Mo that will boycott all business’s that have the no firearms sign up, as a ccw owner I personally dont feel that strongly about it but I also dismiss the sign.

I know a few of my drivers are wanting to acquire their ccw and carry, I really don’t know how to feel about that, my feeling right now is I would rather not know, kind of a dont ask dont tell scenario, but at the moment we dont have a set policy on it because none of my employees carry other than me and my wife.

 

[goodmank]

Please delete

 

[pizzatime]

Allowed to carry in my state. I don’t ask dont tell. Never had a problem in 20 years but thats not tosay it wont happen. Me on the other hand, I will show then blow.

pt