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Garlic Butter in Dough Recipe

One other thing to keep in mind with your sauce, if you add onion or garlic to the sauce be sure to really “nuke” it, you want it above 185F, not from a food safety stand point, but this will denature the enzymes in the onion and garlic keeping them from catalyzing the pectin in the tomato allowing it to turn into tomato jelly (actually, it’s pretty good too, but that’s another story) which then leads you to thinning the sauce with even more water and further diluting the flavor.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
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Does this refer to fresh garlic and onion or the powdered/granulated as well
 
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I would think you would just need to sau·té if you have a stove. That is what I did at first before using the MAE method.
 
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Just mix the garlic with your oil and run it through the oven in a suitable container, then check the temperature as it comes out of the oven, if you have 185F you’re good to go, if not, maybe another full pass or partial pass through the oven.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
 
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Thanks will be giving this a go and see how it affects the sauce. We do get water separation from our sauce it happens about 50% of the time and its not a crazy amount but it does bug me.
 
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Water separation or syneresys as it is called can result from a poorly manufactured sauce or more commonly it results when we add water to the sauce. A better way to thin sauce is to use tomato puree. Probably one of the worst things that you can use in making sauce is tomato paste as it impacts flavor, color, and exhibits a penchant for syneresys.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
 
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We don’t add water to the sauce but we do put half a can of paste to 5 cans of whole tomatoes which come in sauce and we grind them. We use the paste to thicken up the sauce and it is a bit loose after we grind the tomatoes
 
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I knew this with fresh garlic, but didn’t realize granulated was affected too. I have been softening clarified butter and mixing in granulated garlic and onion. I keep this in a metal pan and brush it over our breadsticks, garlic bread, ect. Am I doing something terribly wrong?
 
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HTP;
No, not if you are discarding the infused butter at the end of each day, otherwise you’re playing Russian roulette with food safety due to the potential for clostridium growth.
As for having an impact upon the breadsticks and garlic knots, since the infused butter isn’t going into the dough as an ingredient, bot to worry, it’ll only make those breadsticks and garlic knots better tasting.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
 
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@Tom Lehmann
Wait, am I reading this correctly that a dehydrated granulated product is also a high-risk item for C-Botulinum spores & toxins if added to butter or oil and kept at an uncontrolled temperature?
I was under the impression that because there is very low water activity (AW) associated with this dehydrated product, that bacterial growth was not an issue at such a low water content when added to only a lipid.
Now I can understand a risk being associated if one were to rehydrate their granulated garlic with water before adding it to oil, but as of right now, using a dried commercial product and adding it to oil I think would be safe.

Let me do some research, and I will edit and provide cites as needed.
 
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While most dehydrated herbs have been treated to destroy the spore and aflatoxin it cannot be guaranteed that all have been such treated, think about some of the stuff coming in from China and Mexico, even from your local farmer’s market. Trying to sort them out just isn’t practical broad scale so it is best to simply take no chances. It isn’t the spore that’s the problem, it’s the aflatoxin that’s the killer, so to speak, and it isn’t destroyed by conventional heating. Some companies have gone so far as to irradiate herbs to ensure their food safety. With dried herbs if the spores are still present they will grow in the anaerobic environment created by the oil and that’s where the problems begin. Call me overly cautious if you will, but there have been entirely too many deadly food contamination outbreaks over the past several years, whit the number continuing to grow and I just don’t want to see anyone contribute to the number that’s why I’m in the better safe than sorry camp.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
 
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I would like to know how this comes out. I’ve been using my garlic butter for about 2 1/2 years now. We usually make it in a small metal pan where we soften the clarified butter then mix in granulated garlic and onion. We used to use dried parsley too, but now I just sprinkle with Italian seasoning when it comes out so I don’t worry about burning the parsley. Anyway, we have always just made a pan of it at a time and use it until it’s gone. Could be a week or 2 weeks depending on how busy we are. We just cover it with foil at night and leave a lid on it throughout the day.

I knew this applied to putting fresh garlic in oil, but I didn’t think it happened with dried, granulated product. My health inspector has never said anything about it. It seems that the very packaging they are bought and stored in are designed to block out air. The granulated garlic and onion I buy are from Restaurant Depot. It’s their Chef’s Quality brand.
 
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Like I said previously, if you are using a commercial, trusted brand of garlic there should not be a problem BUT where the problem arises is when the garlic is not processed correctly such as is the case with some of the imported and especially farmer’s market stuff. Just as an FYI there have been so many problems/concerns arising out of farmer’s market produce lately that there is talk about restaurants not being allowed to buy from anyone but a certified grower when they step outside of their commercial food distributor. You would still be able to buy fresh produce from a farmer’s market, but the grower/seller would need to be certified for growing and processing in a food safe manner. This would be something like the California food safety law requiring the employee (farmer/grower in this case) to take a short food safety class to receive certification, what it does is to eliminate the “but I didn’t know” excuse when something goes terribly wrong. When you’re baking pizzas at home you can do whatever you want, if something does go terribly wrong, the collateral damage is confined, but if you’re the owner of a pizzeria/restaurant 50, 100, or more people might be involved. Because of this, I follow the strict rule to not recommend holding onion/garlic infused oil for more than one day, like I said, better to be safe than sorry, and sympathy cards can get to be mighty expensive.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
 
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I haven’t had much computer time to do more research on this, but so far everything I am finding on university and government websites refers only to “Fresh” garlic and herbs being a hazardous product in a low/no oxygen environment, I even went into my sausage and meat curing references and I am finding zero warnings about dried garlic (Granulated or powdered) being a potentially hazardous product.
As I mentioned earlier, I believe it has to do with water activity, such low percentages of water make it very difficult for pathogens to multiply and produce spores and their associated toxins.

Still looking, so I do not believe this is over yet.
 
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While low water activity, not moisture/water content will inhibit microbial growth, it generally does not kill the microbe so the potential for growth still exists under conditions that could be present in some shops (think high humidity), and with the products that I see coming into kitchens today, I stand by my position, garlic is just too cheap, don’t take this as a scientific fact, it’s just my opinion and it has kept me from using my liability insurance for nearly 40-years now, and I’m doing my best to keep it that way.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
 
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While low water activity, not moisture/water content will inhibit microbial growth, it generally does not kill the microbe so the potential for growth still exists under conditions that could be present in some shops (think high humidity), and with the products that I see coming into kitchens today, I stand by my position, garlic is just too cheap, don’t take this as a scientific fact, it’s just my opinion and it has kept me from using my liability insurance for nearly 40-years now, and I’m doing my best to keep it that way.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
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@Tom Lehmann I can respect that stance, because it makes perfect sense.
I hope our discussion on this has made it better known to many how things that seem innocuous can in fact be deadly if not treated correctly and with the utmost care
 
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Got Rocks;
You’re absolutely right, we’re faced with so many potential unseen food safety issues to day that we have to be cautious with just about everything we handle. Some time ago I got embroiled in a discussion on cheese made on premise from fresh/raw milk. The argument was that our customers love it on our pizzas, and we haven’t made anyone sick yet (operative word being “yet”). We all remember the listeria outbreaks and recalls associated with improperly processed cheese coming out of California as well as cases related to raw milk not just at the small scale level but also at the large wholesale dairy scale. This kinda parallels the garlic issue. As restaurant owners/operators we have a commitment to our customers to do everything within our power to provide them with food that is safe and wholesome.
An interesting twist in the clostridium issue is that back during the 1960’s we were doing studies on canned bread (as part of a study to better understand the bread staling reaction) and in several instances we found growth of clostridium…in bread of all things!! Never heard of such a thing was the industry response, but I maintained the position that under the right conditions clostridium “could” grow in bread. Fast forward to the 1980’s and enter the world of vacuum packaging of foods as part of an ESL (extended shelf life) program with tortillas. Yep, you guessed it, clostridium growth was found in vacuum packaged tortillas, not once but twice. Both cases originated with Canadian manufactured product and is well documented. This illustrates how, in this case, a change in packaging can change the whole food safety dynamics of a food product otherwise thought to be completely safe.
We can never let our guard down when it comes to food safety, if we do, Mr. Murphy will find our address and come to pay a visit with potentially disastrous results.
I don’t mean to be a scare monger, but I do believe if we have an understanding of the consequences it will provide the impetus needed to keep us focused on food safety, you summarized it very well in your latest response. I hope this discussion has helped our readers to better understand the “potential” food safety issues associated with garlic when we put it into oil or any anaerobic environment.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
 
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Outstanding statements!
Maybe in the future we should/could discuss the dangers involved with vacuum packaging products in a restaurant situation, and proper cooling times/temps.

There have been a few major outbreaks of foodborne illness this last decade from restaurants & caterers due to time/temp abuse that sickened several hundred people at a time.
I believe it was C. Perfringens that was mostly responsible, It won’t kill you like C. Botulinum toxins will, but it’ll knock you down for a few days.
 
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