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My Taradel Experience

Look, you guys can call me what you want… The bottom line is that when I talked with Chris, I originally wanted quotes for 5 and 10,000 menus and the same stock paper as we had before (100#). We sat on that decision for over a week and after numerous phone calls with Chris talking so highly of these menus and how much I will love them and how they’re going to dramatically increase business, he persuaded us to go with the lesser pound stock with the 10,000 minimum, even though that’s not what we originally wanted and was even prepared to pay the same exact amount for half the menus. He did not mention anything about having bad folds, bad printing, dull or (obvious) mismatched colors. Which NONE OF THOSE THINGS WERE VISIBLE ON THE PROOFS. The proofs on the screen are vibrate and pop out. You would never be able to tell that the reds wouldnt match, or the the blacks for the descriptions didnt match, or that there will be a big strip of the front page on the back.

Heres the thing…. I had such high expectations (again, paying over $1100) of these menus. I thought these were going to be my fresh new approach to things. Reopening this store was even harder than opening it the first time. AND I DID IT ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL BY MYSELF with virtually no help (again). Before I had someone else open and close everyday, now I’m by myself from 9am to 11 am getting the place ready and from 8pm till 10pm closing the place. All while trying to run an entire business AND do the prep work, make most orders, tons of dishes, cleaning, wrapping, sweeping, taking out garbage, you know the rest on top of all the office duties, marketing, coupons, box toppers, specials… I worked my arse off these past couple months to get this place somewhat going again. Over 80 per week with no life, wayyyyy worse the the first time around. I was sooo ecstatic about these menus you have no idea.

And pizzapirate- what the heck is that supposed to mean? Because I seem arrogant on the “internet†means that people should take advantage of me? I need to look in the mirror and do what? See that I’m a really nice guy and people have a way of taking advantage of me? I guess youre right, it’s my fault that I expect too much and I’m too trusting of people that do not live up to their promises. When you pay for something, it should be done right the first time. I’m just really sick of not getting what is promised, or lack of critical information (like the quality of print, colors, fold etc). I needed to vent but now you guys turned this into some kind of war, which its not. You guys gotta understand something, I’m obviously not good at talking and confrontations. I’m very shy and I don’t talk much. The internet is where I have a voice. I would never in a million years be able to talk the things I type to someone. I’m sorry that you guys look down at me for that, but I really don’t care. You guys have awesome advice and I really do value everything that comes out of pmq. There’s not a day I don’t read almost everything.

I have to live with these menus, just like Taradel has to live with my complaints. I do not expect them to do anything else, whats done is done. Hopefully at least one person will learn from this and not have to go through with it, with ANY company. Theres no doubt Taradel has the ability to do outstanding work and probably dies 98% of the time. I can easily see why any business would go with them.
 
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famouspizza:
Steve, I think you have to let it go. This type of public forum should really be used in cases where they are really trying to take advantage of the customer. Can you imagine if everybody here was to post every time we were dissappointed with a vendor or even every time a less than perfect pizza went out and you had to see it on the web? I see where you are coming from Steve, but it is obvious that the company was not looking t screw you. Seems like he tried to make it right by offering you a discount so I think that posting here after the fact is not cool
I was never talking trash, I never made anything up, I never said that he was out to screw me, and I certainly would not deter anyone from using their company. If you think I would do that, then you apparently do not know me. This is an open forum and I simply shared my experience, hence the title.
 
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Steve I have nothing but appreciation for your business , you are a hard worker and a great guy - I could tell how dedicated you were from our initial conversation. I enjoyed every additional conversation that we had over the last few months, and I am very pleased to have worked with you.

To clarify my comments - my only issue was that we had an agreement and I had no idea that you were upset at all. In my mind, after we spoke and worked out a resolution, everything was 100% ok. Let’s chat on Monday and work something out Steve. I’ll do whatever is in my power to help out.

Once in awhile, no matter what business you are in, these types of situation arise.

Thanks again to all of the PMQ TT for your support - we’re all here to help each other improve the pizza industry, learn from experience, and hopefully increase our chances for future success.

All the best!

-Chris
 
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qcfmike:
I will be the first to admit I am new and not familiar with past posts or problems and he might very well have a history of bringing on problems of his own. I just don’t like the fact that a company rep would ever make a derogatory or negative type comment about a customer no matter what the circumstance. It just is very unprofessional. Mistakes and bad business deals or experiences happen every single day and will continue to happen to the guys that bring them on themselves and to the ones that just happen upon a bad situation. Either way a vendor, no matter how large or small should always looks after its customers and even if the customer walks away still unsatisfied, no matter how hard you have tried or what you have done…you as the service provider should be the bigger “person” here. I personally think that no matter how much Steve were to bad mouth or vent to others about his experience with Chris, if Chris would have handled or maybe I should not say handled…more if he would have just commented differently… I think it would have painted a much better picture of himself and his company for me and hopefully others. All he would have needed to say was he understood there were some issues with the quality of the product that Steve received and we have worked on it and I will or am continuing to work on the situation. Bottom line…if all else fales… refund the entire purchase price and terminate any future business with the custome since they are not going to be satisfied no matter what you do for them. Some people are very hard to please and want everything for nothing. Please do not get me wrong here. I am not trying to justify anything that either party did here. The only thing that really has me going is the way that a vendor should never make negative public comments about its customers… it just looks tacky and maybe I am over reacting but I would not deal with people that work like that. No matter how good they actually might be at what they do or offer.
After reading Chris’s posts, I do not see where he made derogatory or negative comments about his customer. It seemed to me that he tried to graciously make his customer happy. Not all situations end up with happy customers. I don’t think it is right to expect him to refund the customers money in all circumstances. If my food distributor shorted me 1 item and another item was lesser quality than I expected should my distributor refund the $6,000. for my order? What if I complain on the internet and after several concessions by my distributor I am still unhappy? Should I get my full refund?
 
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You guys are blowing this out of proportion and making me look like I’m a bad guy… Chris, appreciate you trying to make this right… now. You knew from our initial conversation about the menus that I was unhappy. And you even tried telling me I overlooked it in the proofs. You had over a week to come up with a solution with you and your boss and you called to tell me you would give me $200 credit and thats “all you can do”. If you really could not tell by the tone of my voice that I was dissatisfied with the credit, then I’m sorry I didn’t make it more clear. I didn’t sound enthusiastic, I wasnt happy and I was eager to accept. I perfectly remember hesitantly saying “I guess…”. And yes, I said thank you after it was all said and done, but I was being polite b/c thats how I was raised. After that point, I knew there wasnt anything else to be done so I just kept my mouth shut. But I could only do that for so long.

I read all these success stories here about Taradel and everytime I look at my menus (everyday) it reminds me of my favorite question “why me”.
 
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No worries Steve, I’m not concerned about who’s fault it is, I just want you to be happy. Enjoy your weekend and we’ll catch up Monday if that is convenient for you. Thanks!
 
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Registered Guest:
Good lord.

Steve - What did you do with the menus? If you used them, are you going to blame them when you close again in a few months? At least at that point you will have someone else to blame. “Geez Dad, we’d be doing $20,000/wk if it wasn’t for those crappy menus!” - “Yeah son, I know - it’s not your fault!”

Epic fail!

Chris - My advice is to just step away from this issue. There will be nothing you can say or do to make it any better - and saying any more will just make it worse. I’ve seen too many internet pissing matches over the years. They never end good for either party. You aren’t going to lose any business to anyone who has read any of Steve’s previous posts.
Well Spoken. CaptnSammy
 
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Its a shame to have this kind of exchange on here, but its also a shame to see some of you guys pitching in with petty personal comments.

Steveo - I can understand your frustration. You seem to have had some issues, some with quality, some with Chris/whoever not listening to the order - whether its free or not - thats not the problem. I’d have probably done the same but I think you’d have been better to lay of the emotions. A bullet pointed list would have been so effective! Quite a few people have posted here when they’ve had a bad experience and so far most appear to have got some resolution which is good.

Chris - If you’d have posted your last post as the first response I’d have been ever so impressed but now I’m not too sure what to make of it! You post how well you guys are doing so you need to be prepared to get this kind of response some times. I’m sure there are two sides to the story BUT… I think some of your comments are a little out of order - YOU took on the business and if it was a loss leader at any time - thats your call not steveo’s. It looks a little below the belt to me to make that kind of comment in the context you posted it. If I give a free pizza out to say a fund raiser and theres a problem I fix it - I don’t labour on the point that it was free.

Lets hope both these guys can sort out this issue and both win.
 
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Hey,
I just wanted to clarify myself a bit here too. I felt that the comments that Chris made about the whole situation had a tone about them that left me feeling like as a rep for a company he should have said nothing more that maybe made a reply that he would be in contact with Steve to try and work out any further problems that he is having with his order. I do not feel that the way he talked about himself was appropriate in this situation. I am sure he did put a lot of effort into this and still will try and fix the problems that Steve is having. As a vendor he has a dissatisfied customer and that is all that should matter. I felt he was trying to paint a bad image of Steve, and don’t get me wrong, I do not know Steve or Chris and I am only going on what each has wrote here. I can see by some responses that it sounds like Steve has had issues in the past and I hope the best for him. But coming from a family business where I learned to treat the $100 order with the same care and respect as the multi-million dollar ones taught me to really step back and work through issues and never, ever make comments that can even in the slightest way be taken in the wrong context or sense. It might seem pitty and little at the time but you never know how even a little misspoken word can bite you in the butt later. Oh, and too compare this too a bad food order or such… If you ordered shreaded cheese and you got cubes or slices would that still be ok? It’s hard to compare since food is a very picky product in itself. But you could probably work with slices and nobody would know the difference. With literature…if it looks bad, then the customer will always in the back of their minds relate your business to something thats not 110%. Why can I expect good food if the menu looks bad or poorly produced. Now this opens up a whole other can of worms since some of the best places to eat are the biggest looking dumps in the country. Go figure. :roll: Just a side note for Chris. For what it’s worth I have had to deal with plenty of customer issues in my years and all I would say is step back and learn a little from each and every one that confronts you. You will be more effective in the end.
 
Ok, points have been made.

Steve, continue your hard work and concentrate on the business! Time to move Fwd…

Chris, thanks again for your contributions to the board.
 
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i don’t post much, but read quite a bit. i know most of my posts are filled with sarcastic comments. BUT, man, was i glad to see steveo pack it in a couple of months ago. steveo, you are not cut out for the ownership role, you maybe could be a good employee somewhere. how could you spend so much time posting crap like this while the real issue is getting the business up and running. this is just the kind of stuff that made you fail the first time. pardon me for the blunt comments. give it up already.

even if the printing wasn’t perfect, it really doesn’t matter at the end of the day. product, prices, and service do!
work on those 3 things, and less time posting.

good luck
 
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This whole conversation would have been best served on the phone between the to interested parties. I am glad to see it is being resolved either way. Both Steve and Chris seem to have a committment to their respective shops, and it shows.
 
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We never did hear what the ultimate destination was for the menus - did they go in the trash, or did they go out?

Either way, what was/is the plan for distributing 10,000 menus? That’s a lot of menu’s to order without direct mailing them.
 
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I don’t see anything wrong with either Steve or Chris’ posts. Chris has been on here with posts offering his services and many people have had good experiences with him and or his company. Steve had a bad experience. Whats wrong with him saying so? I think it is a benefit that he shared the information about the poor quality of menus he received. If you read enough posts/information (good and bad), you will have more knowledge to make a good decision.
 
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papajoe:
I don’t see anything wrong with either Steve or Chris’ posts. Chris has been on here with posts offering his services and many people have had good experiences with him and or his company. Steve had a bad experience. Whats wrong with him saying so? I think it is a benefit that he shared the information about the poor quality of menus he received. If you read enough posts/information (good and bad), you will have more knowledge to make a good decision.
totally agree on this one - well said.

Nick - if memory serves me correctly you posted when you had problems with a thermal roll supplier even though you had spoken to them on the phone - I don’t see this being any different (other than its got emotional).

Re Porky and others comments - I think its pretty poor that you think you can dismiss someones business skills based on reading a few posts. There are plenty of people who struggle in this business and so far TT has been suppoortive of pretty much all of them. Is it now pick and choose who we help on this board?? Steveo has decided to make a go of it and quite a few people here suggested what to do to make it happen just before he closed. So he’s following the advice given - so give him a break.

If Nick or one of the other long timers on TT had posted the same comments as steveo they’d have had lots of support.

I know for sure if I had paid $1200 for menu’s or whatever I’d expect them to be printed and folded correctly otherwise they’d be shipped back. If something like business cards were specified as matt and shipped as gloss I’d be P***ed off. If calls unanswered I’d be annoyed. Professional menu’s are critical but for me its the first thing a new customer will see so it should be right. Chris posts lots of promotional stuff on this site and its only fair that if someone has issues that they can flag them here also thats the nature of the beast. Chris eventually handled the complaint well but if he’d have done it like that from the outset I’d have been really impressed. If Chris had posted a more professional first post in the first case rather than starting a two way dialogue on here then this discussion wouldn’t be happening would it now?

{Edited last two sentences so they made sense!}
 
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porky's pizza:
i don’t post much, but read quite a bit. i know most of my posts are filled with sarcastic comments. BUT, man, was i glad to see steveo pack it in a couple of months ago. steveo, you are not cut out for the ownership role, you maybe could be a good employee somewhere. how could you spend so much time posting crap like this while the real issue is getting the business up and running. this is just the kind of stuff that made you fail the first time. pardon me for the blunt comments. give it up already.

even if the printing wasn’t perfect, it really doesn’t matter at the end of the day. product, prices, and service do!
work on those 3 things, and less time posting.

good luck
You’re probably right. I like working these hours AND getting (nicely) compensated, I like being told what to do rather than doing it all on my own with barely any guidance, and I like having appreciation from the owners for going extra distance and them telling me how good of a job I’m doing and/or bonus’s. You’re right again, its my posting on the internet that caused low sales in a highly (HIGHLY) saturated market. I hope you feel big talking down to someone you dont know (AT ALL).

You guys must think that I’d rather write a negative post than a positive one. Which is really, really messed up. I would much rather have nicer, up to par menus than to write this “crap”. Chris and I had also discussed that these menus would be so nice that I WOULD write a nice little review here and for a testimonial on his website. Yup, this is exactly how I wanted it to turn out.

R.G.- As I said before, we really did not want 10-12000 menus, and Chris knew this. We have not thrown them out. We were going to do door hanging, but that will result in us getting fined.

Chris, if you’re reading this, thank you for trying a second time but this was not an attempt to get anything for free. We are going to have to live with the 12000 menus, just like you guys are going to have to live with this post on the internet. Again, I would not deter anyone from using your company, I just wanted to share MY story. I hope we all can learn something from this.

To Mike and Wizzle - I really thank you guys for the support. I’m glad that some people on this board don’t have an entirely false and distorted image of me.
 
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Wizzle Wassell:
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papajoe:
I don’t see anything wrong with either Steve or Chris’ posts. Chris has been on here with posts offering his services and many people have had good experiences with him and or his company. Steve had a bad experience. Whats wrong with him saying so? I think it is a benefit that he shared the information about the poor quality of menus he received. If you read enough posts/information (good and bad), you will have more knowledge to make a good decision.
totally agree on this one - well said.

Nick - if memory serves me correctly you posted when you had problems with a thermal roll supplier even though you had spoken to them on the phone - I don’t see this being any different (other than its got emotional).

Re Porky and others comments - I think its pretty poor that you think you can dismiss someones business skills based on reading a few posts. There are plenty of people who struggle in this business and so far TT has been suppoortive of pretty much all of them. Is it now pick and choose who we help on this board?? Steveo has decided to make a go of it and quite a few people here suggested what to do to make it happen just before he closed. So he’s following the advice given - so give him a break.

If Nick or one of the other long timers on TT had posted the same comments as steveo they’d have had lots of support.

I know for sure if I had paid $1200 for menu’s or whatever I’d expect them to be printed and folded correctly otherwise they’d be shipped back. If something like business cards were specified as matt and shipped as gloss I’d be P***ed off. If calls unanswered I’d be annoyed. Professional menu’s are critical but for me its the first thing a new customer will see so it should be right. Chris posts lots of promotional stuff on this site and its only fair that if someone has issues that they can flag them here also thats the nature of the beast. Chris eventually handled the complaint well but if he’d have done it like that from the outset I’d have been really impressed. If Chris had posted a more professional first post in the first case rather than starting a two way dialogue on here then this discussion wouldn’t be happening would it now?

{Edited last two sentences so they made sense!}
Very well said.
 
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Steveo sorry to hear about your disappointment. As you know I am a big fan of Taradel. Nothing but good things to say. I also must have missed the thread that you were giving another go around with the biz…good for you. How have sales been going? Did they finish the construction outside your place yet?

Kris
 
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Wizzle Wassell:
Nick - if memory serves me correctly you posted when you had problems with a thermal roll supplier even though you had spoken to them on the phone - I don’t see this being any different (other than its got emotional). . . . . . . .
I think I should have been more clear about what I was talking about. I apologize for that. I agree that both parties have have an acceptably courteous public disagreement. Steve should very definitely have posted his experience and if the thing had not resolved well. I did. My statment here should have been more involved saying that it may have been more productive to both to have negotiated as far as they could before coming here. Chris, in hindsight, most definitely would have been better perceived had he called Steve as soon as he read the displeased narrative. He chose to defend his position first. No judgement, but I stand by my belief that this conflict would have been better served as a private conversation until there was no other resolution to be gained. I may be mistaken that it had gotten to that point . . .
Wizzle Wassell:
If Nick or one of the other long timers on TT had posted the same comments as steveo they’d have had lots of support . . . . . .
I would really, really hope someone will confront me/others when I say something off-kilter, rude or stupid (These guys didn’t at all say rude/stupid stuff). That’s what supportive is about . . . . compliments as well as confrontation.
Wizzle Wassell:
Chris posts lots of promotional stuff on this site and its only fair that if someone has issues that they can flag them here also thats the nature of the beast. Chris eventually handled the complaint well but if he’d have done it like that from the outset I’d have been really impressed.
Agreed. Vendors who promote themselves do make a bright, shiny target for confronting inconsistency of message. Valid or not, Chris is in the pool to be scrutinized just like we are when we put our message out into our marketplace. We take it in the teeth from customers all the time.
 
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I still poke in here occasionally though my dreams were put through a sheeter and turned to sheet. I do not want to add anything other than I sure hate to see the acrimony between members here. This has always been a wonderful place for support in what is a very brutal industry.
 
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