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New guy with a lot of questions.

Hi Freddy

A few comments on this one.

Costs - these will vary hugely depending on what you need and what you buy. TT residents could provide you with a cost figure of 30k to 150k and justify both ends thats the beauty of this business that you can spend as little or as much as you want but it WILL affect the quality and quantity of your business. You question the build-out figure yet this single thing can vary hugely. Your space may be an ex-pizza shop (up to code) ready to walk in and start tomorrow or it may have been a totally different kind of space, so no one can really give you an accurate figure on it.

Equipment - you really do get what you pay for. The ebay advert includes an electric conveyor - more expensive to run than gas. Its an older oven and therefore less efficient than some of the newer models so in the long run will cost you more to maintain etc etc etc.

I actually came into pizza from a senior position in a totally different industry 5 years ago. I was very lucky to hook up with a guy 30 minutes driver away who mentored me. I worked for him (for free) for 2-3 months whilst he taught me and spent 1:1 times going through a lot of the issues I would face as an owner. Did it prepare me? No where near enough but I’d hate to think of what I’d have been like without his help! We had a huge opening and we were just not prepared for it. If I did it again now with 4+ years experience it would be tough but I wouldn’t have had the ar*e kicking I got back then (and lost the customers I lost though bad service). I worked 11am to midnight every day for around 3 months then managed to have a day off a week then gradually managed to get myself out of the store on a working basis. I’m still work actively in the store and am at the end of the phone 24 hours a day. I have a very experienced rota of good managers but being hands on I still get phone calls at all times with people keeping me informed of things or asking question.

I can’t emphasise the advice given before. Until you have worked in a busy shop on a Friday night when you’re getting slammed you haven’t the slightest idea of what working in pizza shop is like. If you haven’t that experience then IMO you ain’t gonna stand a chance unless a) you are going to have a very quiet shop or b) you can take on a VERY experienced team (which as you say there aren’t many Pizza places locally so that ain’t gonna happen).

Re the income bit. Have deep pockets! I had a very good paying job before and luckily managed to live from my savings for quite a time. You wouldn’t believe the costs/mistakes that you will make in the business (many here have shared them). You won’t know what to schedule for labour, food to buy, how much you will need to spend on marketing for quite some time so you need a pot of money to live off. If you are going to have to hire a full time manager then thats a big cost for a business with no track record.

I’ve now 2 shops, just under 40 staff, and we’re up average 10%+ each week this year in both shops I hope we can maintain this next year but the market is tough and who knows what the economy will do. I distribute around 1,000,000 pieces of marketing material each year between the two shops (just did the maths on that one) and its still a very tough market.

Sorry if this isn’t all positive stuff but I’d rather give you a reality based version of what can happen.
 
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Excellent post.

Looking through the phone book I see that there are approx. 5 independant pizza shops on the island so getting a job there may be challenging (especially if you tell them you want to be mentored). However, the pizza hut is pretty busy, I think getting a job at the pizza hut working evenings may be a good place to learn a little bit.

Do you see any problem working at Pizza Hut?
 
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First time chiming in here. Totally agree with the previous posts.

As for working at PH I think it would be a great place to get a part time job to get your feet wet. One thing you need to keep in mind if you do…they have all the systems in place. They have a whole division I am sure who implements procedures and things like that…so it will be easier than opening your new place.

Experience in the restaurant field is helpful because without it you don’t know the flow or all kinds of things we run into.

Since you are planning on opening a shop my number one advice would be to pay for it and not borrow. Is it possible…Yes. I am sure that option doesn’t sound feasible to you so my best advice would be is have deep enough pockets to provide for you family for at least a year. Deep enough pockets to maintain business for at least 6 months. I would say most restaurants fail because they borrow too much and don’t have any kind of money to help survive during the tough times…and there will be plenty of those.
 
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I am heartened to see you are doing legwork ahead of time on this stuff. This is a good start to my own personal mantra and dead horse to beat . . . the written business plan. that will be a key for how you can get anyone to take a chance on you with financing and/or leasing to you.

Q1 Being a part-time manager yourself means you need to hire/recruit/train/build/unearth a reliable and effectiv emanager to run the ship when you or your wife cannot be on site. That means researching and learning about compensation, target percentages, expectations of managers and assitant managers, and policies/procedures regarding them. Learn what is and is not reasonable expectations, how to hold them accountable, systems and processes to assure consistancy and defend against theft & incompetancy.

Q3 you can get some basic dough handling skills at home, and can develop some recipe basics. When you get into the Big Leagues, the equipment handles INCREDIBLY DIFFERENTLY, and the bulk recipes are also different to manage. 2# of flour versus 50# is a light year of difference. You can learn in small kitchen situation; know that these will be baselines that you will need to re-develop or modify when you get into the big time. It is just the scale and performance that you will stuggle to replicate. Everything else will be the same . . . a tomato tastes like a tomato, no matter how many you use.

Q4 Sauce accounts for like 15% of the cost of the pizza and like 60% of the flavor profile. I am WAGing the actual numbers, and cannot remember the source, but you get the picture. Lousy sauce makes lousy pizza. Great sauce has a chance of making spectacular pizzas. And everywhere in between. I sugges to people to decide on what sort of flavor profile they want, and then work out a sauce that balances well with the cheese to get the flavor they want. If it can stand proud on a cheese only pizza . . . then a pepperoni pizza . . . then you have a winner. You cannot hide a bad sauce on those two pies. I choose to build my pizza brand around the sauce and choose high grade tomatoes to make it. My particular base is Stanislaus, which makes a good red sauce. There are other high end 'Maters to use . . . you cannot make a great sauce with lousy (read tomato paste) tomatoes. It costs me like 5 cents more to use a high-end tomato on a 16" pizza versus a middling national brand. I choose that cost.

I recommend starting with a sort of basic sauce recipe, a cheese and a dough. Aim for something that has a chance to meet the marketplace expectations and expected cost of goods projections. Start baking and systematically learn and adjust one of them until you get what you think is great. Getting the dough texture and finish right is a decent first step.

Then change the next one. Take lots and lots and lots of notes about your testing and get several opinions. Use simple pies as well as more complex ones.

Remember that this may all change when you get into commercial ovens with commercial mixers. . . . and $$ paying customers with taste preferences.

While you are doing all of this . . . you need to figure out and decide you USP: Unique Selling Point. Bottom line, why should I buy pizza from you instead of the next guy. This one single decision will guide you in later decisions about products, pricing, brand identity, staffing, locations, print materials. Decide who you are and why I as a customer care who you are. The rest should flow from there.
 
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OK,
I’m probably gonna get slammed here but, in my very humble opinion, and agreeing 100% to tripling any estimates your working with. A man with the kinda money you seem to have, a smart enough business sense to investigate a new venture before jumping in and living in Hawaii which from what I’m reading is just as bad or worse off than we are on the mainland. You REALLY gotta have some desire to own a pizza shop or restaurant to even think of doing it. I’ll admit, I’m not normal! Working 12, 16 hours a day to most people seems nuts, and I know that more than most of my friends here do just that. I worked over 30 years on the other side of the counter for someone else, and I just had to prove to no one but myself that I could do it for me. It was a real life decision, I know that now more than ever since I just about lost everything I had by opening when I did. If I knew that the economy was going to turn like it did I may have had enough brains to beat down the desire to prove something to myself. Sorry if that’s seems negative, maybe you have money like that to gamble, but unless you won Iron chef that’s exactly what it is.
So, if you want more than anything to own your own restaurant, make your own recipes and have people return loyally to your joint and bring friends go for it, and with a little luck and a lot of help from your new friends here you may just make it like I have. Good luck in whatever you decide New Guy, I’ll help whenever I can.
Willi
 
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I got to be honest guys, your scaring the hell out of me.

It seems like such a straight forward business. In no particular order…
*make good pizza
*have a good location
*have a hook/gimmick or two to get customers to eat your pizza (and not the competitors)
*have enough money on the backside to advertise and get through the tough months
*work your butt off for the first few years.

That was my opinion of the business but a lot of these posts make it sound like its opening up an amusement park or car company.

Is it that bad and difficult of a business? I’m either very naive, foolish or overconfident to get into a business like this. Do most of you regret being in this line of work?
 
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After reading the post I wonder why anyone would get into the pizza business. They’re obviously a lot of disgruntled Pizza owners lurking here. Hey grab the bull by the horn and go for it. Read books, mentor and all that you can do to learn the business. Bring your passion and go with it. Most people on here will post how you can’t do it but the old saying…if you think you can or think you can’t …your right. Tom’s knowledge is priceless find it and absorb it. I think this site needs a resurgence of pizza passion. Success follows the right people and all people will not be successful. Excuses and “You can’t attitudes”…clear the conscience of the unsuccessful.

Let the backlash begin
 
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can understand that fatmike…

and if you take that passion and times it by 3 = success!!!

:lol:

all kidding aside, I find it hard to agree (i’m not an expert) that … say he gets the bulk of his equipment - permits etc for 35k, with planning and the right place ready to go, how must it cost another 70k to open the doors? for your average equip’d place?

thats silly to think you can’t open the doors without that imho. i’m sure plenty open under these circumstances under 40k with success (as in making 70k for yourself per year kind of success in a year or 3).

by all means don’t listen to me, I’m just askin’ -

edit: i’m basing my opinion on him having 40k cash
 
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fatmike32:
're obviously a lot of disgruntled Pizza owners lurking here.
Let the backlash begin
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fatmike

I don’t see that anyone who has posted any ‘advice’ here is disgruntled. They are giving good honest advice. Where is anyone showing any signs of being disgruntled?

I think all of us here, and Freddy in particular, would prefer to go in eye’s open and thinking about some of the issues rather than us all say ‘hey yeah its really easy and you can do it $30,000’ - what help is that???
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BPLive:
I find it hard to agree (i’m not an expert) that … say he gets the bulk of his equipment - permits etc for 35k, with planning and the right place ready to go, how must it cost another 70k to open the doors? for your average equip’d place?

thats silly to think you can’t open the doors without that imho. i’m sure plenty open under these circumstances under 40k with success (as in making 70k for yourself per year kind of success in a year or 3).
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As many posters have said before (on this thread and others) you can open a shop for as little or as much as you want. No one (other than Freddy) will know his location and premises and we are therefore ‘stabbing in the dark’ with regards to build out costs. Sure you can also pick up equipment dirt cheap but again so far Freddy has not mentioned anything about projected volume, whether this will be takeout only, dine in, delco? Pick a figure and he can open a shop but at least the posts here are really making him think a) is this business as easy as he thought? b) what are the actual costs involved. Again better to provoke some serious thought. Give me a quote for opening a pizza shop? OK, $0 to $300,000. There are quite a few examples in that price range on TT.
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Freddy_Krugerrand:
I got to be honest guys, your scaring the hell out of me.

It seems like such a straight forward business. In no particular order…
*make good pizza
*have a good location
*have a hook/gimmick or two to get customers to eat your pizza (and not the competitors)
*have enough money on the backside to advertise and get through the tough months
*work your butt off for the first few years.

That was my opinion of the business but a lot of these posts make it sound like its opening up an amusement park or car company.

Is it that bad and difficult of a business? I’m either very naive, foolish or overconfident to get into a business like this. Do most of you regret being in this line of work?
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I’m glad that you’re scared as this will make you think seriously about this. Your list is pretty good. But there is a huge reality gap between saying those things and actually making them happen. An awful lot is involved in some of those things. In any retail shop ‘have a hook/gimmick or two to get customers in your door’ is much easier to say than do isn’t it? I don’t see anyone here saying they wouldn’t do it again, rather they are explaining it is not a simple business - if it were every pizza shop would flourish and that plainly isn’t the case.

I think I still go back to the first advice given to you ‘go work in a pizza shop’ for a few weeks to see if its what you want what the worst that happens, you give up a few night to work and realise you hate it, or you learn a few things that allow you understand the business (which you admit you don’t know much about) and can plan accrodingly. You will learn so much and see for yourself if its what you want.
 
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I have to agree with fatmike. It’s about the passion and loving what you do. Going in it to make money should be if anything second. I’ve been in the pizza biz since I was 14 in some form or another. I had tried other jobs such as managing a movie theater,managing a grocery store and driving trucks for my dad,but my passion always brought me back to pizza. And thats why I do it.
 
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I’m definately NOT disgruntled!!
I’m just pointing out the facts of a pizza shop. Obvioulsy, Freddy has the passion to run his own business. It’s already successful apparently.

So first, why not expand the business you already have? It’s something you already know and it would take less time to get it going since you already have the knowledge. Outside of just learning the pizza business, another thing to consider is how hard it is to run more then one location, even if it’s seperate businesses. Depending on what you’re first business is, it can be hard!!

With that said…if there are 5 pizza places where you are, what is the population and is there enough of a population to sustain 6 places or more? In 2 years, there’s no way to know who else might be wanting to open their own shop too. I speak from the experience of being in an area where there are too many shops with a Pizza Hut going in around the corner from me. They have alot more money then I do, but I already have the customer base and I’ve focused on being the only mom and pop in the area.

Another aspect to look at is the local health department and their regulations. Make sure you look into that, you can’t open without an approval atleast in my area.

I just don’t want to see someone sink some money in a place they will have to close in a year. And being here in a state that is an extremely tough area to be self employed, people just need to be prepared.
 
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I agree what everyone is saying. Everyone is giving you excellent advise. To make any pizza or food business work takes a lot of work, commitment, and money to get started and money to live on for awhile. Although my situation is different than most of the pizza shop owners here, I know from all the years I have worked in the food business it takes total commitment to make a food business a success if you are lucky. I am now semi-retired, but have a pizza stand at our local farmers market. I started my stand in April of 2009. I only make pizza one day a week. For this pizza stand it took months of planning and many snags before I could open. Just for this one day, I do much planning and am there the day before market to make my dough and sauce. Then another day to clean the oven do other things and do book work. I keep searching for new ideas and better ways to make my pizza. This is the only way I might become successful. If you would count all the hours I have spent on this you might think is it really worth it. I am trying to make the best pizza I can and still each week you face problems and have many decisions to make. I am at a farmers market that gets many people though each week. www.rootscountrymarket.com. Look under standholders and you will see Norma’s Pizza. The people are already there, but they have other foods to choose from, too. Many people on this forum have help me with recipes and different ideas about what other food I could add to my menu. Tom Lehmann, the dough doctor has also answered my questions many times, also.
I am also a forum member at http://www.pizzamaking.com. If you go there and see how many people are passionate about making their own pizza at home and how some people eventually opened their own shops. You can get an idea of all what goes into making pizzas and all the dough management skills you will need. You can make great pizzas at home and get a feel for what is involved in making a great pizza. They also have been a great help to me.
I really don’t know at this point if I will be successful. Yes, I am selling pizzas and am doing okay, but would need so much more to make a whole living out of this. Luckily, I did have a business to sell before I opened my pizza stand.
My husband and I had owned two market stands at different farmers market and sold other food before my pizza making adventure. Many people said, I would love to have your job working only two days a week. They didn’t realize we worked 6 and sometimes 7 days a week to make a living, with very long hours. I had to sell these because my husband became to ill to work and I couldn’t do all the work myself. Although family did help us for many years, there were still times when someone was ill or needed an operation and you really were stuck doing everything yourself. I really enjoyed that business with all the work because I could become directly involved with our customers and get automatic feedback. Just that alone make all the working worthwhile to us. That business was in my husbands family since 1928. Until you are really in a food business or work for someone else in a business, you really can’t fully understand what it is like.
I wish you the best of luck in what ever you decide to do.
Norma
 
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knightwing1995:
I have to agree with fatmike. It’s about the passion and loving what you do. Going in it to make money should be if anything second. I’ve been in the pizza biz since I was 14 in some form or another. I had tried other jobs such as managing a movie theater,managing a grocery store and driving trucks for my dad,but my passion always brought me back to pizza. And thats why I do it.
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I disagree! Its a business pure and simple. Treat it like anything but and you won’t be open very long. Its great to be passionate about what you do, but who’s to say that passion isn’t really about running a successful operation, whether its pizza, burgers, retail, or manufacturing??

I’d look for avenues of expanding the business I’m already successful at (though it could be limited by the size of the island, Oahu? ) rather than exploring a brand new concept.
 
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If I had to ask myself “If you had to do it all over again…would you?” or “Is it what I thought it would be?”

I would do it all over again…but man if I could do it all over again and know what I know now…man that would have saved me so many “stupid taxes” but it is still no guarantee. We have had our first location for 15 years. It is the workhorse. Busier than we ever could have anticipted. Our location is small. Sooooo when we had an opportunity to buy a new house and finances were in order…the biz was debt free, making money with lots of time off…we got the brilliant idea to open another location. We figured with all the knowledge, all the experience from owning our own place it would be easier.

Sure it was easier but forgot how much stuff there is to deal with on a new place. The passion gets me to my job some days…some days it is just a job…some days it is a curse…some days it is a sense of pride…some days it is a whole bunch of shoulda, coulda, woulda. It takes alot of work.

I couldn’t imagine doing anything else…There truly is nothing else like seeing a great pie come out of the oven, or eating a pizza that still blows me away…but it is now 15 years later.

Advice is free. Wisdom is free. That is all we are throwing your way. It is hundreds of years of experience compiled into one resource. A fool wouldn’t listen. I still listen. Some days our conversation puts a fire under my tale, some days I just appreciate the support because times get tough.
If you think opening a pizza place is what you want to do…go for it just like you are. Appreciate the things we talk to ya about. We appreiciate the questions and conversation…it keeps our passion burning!

Kris 😃
 
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By the way we never bought the house we bought a pizza place with equipment and a whole lot of debt.

As for books when I was about 20 I read a book written by Tom Monohan (sp?) the founder of dominoes. It was a good book. I think I still have it somewhere. Probably not the kind you were looking for but it would be an easy read with a guy sharing his experience.
 
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Freddy_Krugerrand:
Aloha everyone,
  1. After I open the pizza shop I plan on keeping my “successful” business and working there for at least a couple of years. I do not plan on being an absentee pizza shop owner but at best I or my wife will only be there 1/2 the time its open. Can this be done? Has anyone on this board done this?
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I wonder if since your other business is going well if you should focus on making it run with out you, then use that income to live off of while you apprentice and/or open up your pizza shop. A lot of successful business owners have multiple streams of income, as the cliche goes. just Robert Kiyosaki’s alleged “Rich Dad”, and wether his story is fact or fiction, it’s a good model.

Another classic read for this is the E-Myth, which you may have already read, being a successful and book hungry business owner.

I’d also recommend Grinding it Out, Ray Crock’s Story. I liked it even though it’s about burgers and am not interested in franchising it’s a good read that illustrates the idea that, “if you can think it you can build it.”
 
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