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THREE DAYS FROM SIGNING & OVEN/HOOD SITUATION STILL A ME

M

MYMANNOAH

New member
Ok guys… I’m a loooong time reader and second time poster. I am trying to get my shop open but am pulling my hair out. I negotiated a great deal on the lease using a previous post here as a reference! :lol: THANK YOU GUYS! I am supposed to sign off on the final lease on Tuesday. The deal is that my oven / hood issue is getting the best of me. My lease deal even includes a Lincoln 1000 that has been installed electrically as well as the gas line. I have tried locating the previous tenant and have had no luck… I would love to know why he failed as well as some questions about the oven/hood situation. Here are the facts:
F1 - The schematics for the L1000 shows that the existing hood is actually 12 inches too narrow in depth. The Lincoln 1000 barely fits under hood not allowing the spare 6" overhang in front and back. I can’t believe the Fire Marshal would have let him operate with that hood being too small.
F2 - Even though the hood is a type II hood, It doesn’t have the nozzles extended down into the conveyors. BTW… The Fire Marshal handling my area is strict about the Fire Codes. They even made a local chain around the corner install and then modify the fire suppression system so that two nozzles are aimed into the front and back of the conveyor openings of their double stacked MM’s. Thats a total of eight nozzles aimed into the MM’s. It’s a spiderweb of pipe that even had to be secured to the oven itself with brackets. Ridiculous! But whatev!
F3 - My crust is the product of 3 years and close to a hundred trial and error attempts and has been perfected. That being said, it was formulated with a stone-hearth oven in mind. What I’m saying is that my 100 attempts were performed in a commercial stone hearth pizza oven.
F4 - My original post was about a Roto-Flex oven and have since nixxed that idea due to lack of $$$ right now. I was hoping to grow into my ideal oven situation rather than sacrifice the $$ out of pocket right out of the gate. That means I would have needed to calibrate the fingers on the L1000 to cook my crust as close to my standards as i could get from an impinger. Now, that doesn’t even seem to be a cost effective option being that the hood is too small.

I’m calling on the experts here in the PMQ forums to maybe answer some questions and provide guidance for this lost pizza soul of mine.
Q1 - Is it possible to modify the existing hood by adding a 6" brow on each side, or add a 12" brow to the front of the hood as to make it deep enough to encompass the oven as the schematics call for?
Q2 - There is no Question 2… LOL! It seems to me the hood will have to be replaced if modification isn’t allowed by Fire Marshal… BTW - How did you guys get the Fire Marshal to inspect the property prior to applying for the Certificate of Occupancy?
Q3 - Just WTH… right? uuuggghhh!

Thank you in advance for your responses.
Yours truly…
“The deal killer”
 
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Re: THREE DAYS FROM SIGNING & OVEN/HOOD SITUATION STILL

1-Based on my experience it is not allowed to modify the existing hood by making it bigger because you will mess up the cycle. I believe Fire Marshall will not allow you to do it. If you do it without their knowledge, most likely they will figure out the oblivious when they come to inspect your suppression system.

2- If you don’t have a building permit means you don’t have a mechanical permit, than you got 2 options. A) Very costly, you need an architect to submit your plan to county for building permit, than your hood guy can get your mechanical permit. Option B) Go to county use previous owners business name and their occupancy permit and tell them that it is exact size replacement of the hood with newer version. You got older version and it is not working properly and you want to change it. This way you don’t need any plan (ask your county) except list of equipments that are going under the hood, so your hood guy can draw the plan to get your mechanical permit. You will also need fire suppression inspection.

RISKY OPTION will be place your Lincoln oven and tell them it is existing when you bought the place. Than call county inspector to see if you need a fire suppression system, if he doesn’t say anything about oven than all you might need is a suppression system.
 
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Re: THREE DAYS FROM SIGNING & OVEN/HOOD SITUATION STILL

MYMANNOAH asks

Q 1 - Is it possible to modify the existing hood by adding a 6" brow on each side, or add a 12" brow to the front of the hood as to make it deep enough to encompass the oven as the schematics call for?

Gm; Its possible but the chances are slim that the authorities will approve. Also changing the size of the hood can change the amount of air to be exhausted.

The exhaust fan you have may not be up to the task of removing enough air.

You do not indicate the age of your ventilation system. It may not conform to the current rules governing hoods.

You will also have to bring back into your building all air exhausted, this is usually referred to as make up air. Do you have a make up air unit presently installed?

It is usually the building department that governs the size of hoods not the Fire Marshall.
The Fire Marshall can require fire protection in hoods but usually that is the extent of their involvement.

In most locations you are required to submit detailed blue prints to the building and health departments detailing exactly what equipment to be used including hood specks. Have you done that?

George Mills
 
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Re: THREE DAYS FROM SIGNING & OVEN/HOOD SITUATION STILL

George,

Please pardon my ignorance… But I do think that I have a makeup return air unit but do not know its capacity… I say this because, there seems to be fresh air coming back into the space from it, through openings towards the front of the hood… But I guess I need to get on the roof for that eh?
Are you saying that my current hood could be grandfathered under previous governing rules? I was under the impression that I would have to “bring up to code” my space before obtaining a CO. This is confusing me a little… can you be more specific here?

I do not know the age becuz I did not think it was impoortant given that the Fire Suppression system was the REAL factor when it came to “UL300”

Is it standard practice or even possible to apply for a CO before signing a lease?

Is it common practice for a representative from the FM’s office to come out and “tell” you what you need so you can “consider” if the cost for improvements is a deal breaker?

Please please… more more
 
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Re: THREE DAYS FROM SIGNING & OVEN/HOOD SITUATION STILL

Please be kind… I’m out of my element here… :?
 
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Re: THREE DAYS FROM SIGNING & OVEN/HOOD SITUATION STILL

Hi Mymannoah
You state: I do think that I have a makeup return air unit but do not know its capacity… I say this because, there seems to be fresh air coming back into the space from it, through openings towards the front of the hood… But I guess I need to get on the roof for that eh?

GM; Yes there should be one exhaust and one intake fan. If the intake air is blowing out into the room it should have a system for heating the air brought in during winter season.

Are you saying that my current hood could be grand fathered under previous governing rules?

GM: As a new operator you will have no grandfather rights.

I was under the impression that I would have to “bring up to code” my space before obtaining a CO.

GM: That is correct.

I do not know the age because I did not think it was important given that the Fire Suppression system was the REAL factor when it came to “UL 300”

GM: Yes fire suppression is important but there are other considerations as to the amount of air to be exhausted based on the size of the hood and type of equipment under it.

Is it standard practice or even possible to apply for a CO before signing a lease?
Is it common practice for a representative from the FM’s office to come out and “tell” you what you need so you can “consider” if the cost for improvements is a deal breaker?

GM There is no hard and fast rule but usually you can get the 3 agencies concerned, Building Inspector, Health Department and Fire Marshal to do that. Contact them and find out what help they can give you.

George Mills
 
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Re: THREE DAYS FROM SIGNING & OVEN/HOOD SITUATION STILL

Yeah, it is possible the modify existing hood if you almost completely change the whole thing, and then if county approves it, so it is impossible, it will be a waste of time & money for you. It will be cheaper to change the whole thing.

You got the understand if you are replacing the hood or modifying it you might also need the make fans-ducts bigger with new code-materials besides make up air.
Another thing you have to watch out is sprinkler heads. When you want to make the hood bigger check out the sprinkler to see if it is touching the new hood dimensions. My county will not allow me to change the heads without fire sprinkler permit even for one. It is a possibility even for one head they may require hydraulic test.

If money and time is against you why don’t you use triple deck Lincoln 1132. It cooks the same with less productivity.
 
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Re: THREE DAYS FROM SIGNING & OVEN/HOOD SITUATION STILL

If you are presently under these kind of pressures why don’t you put off signing the lease?

Also, your rent should be abated until you get your C of O. At most, I would pay the common charges (CAM) until you get your certificate & have yet to do that.

Good Luck
 
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Re: THREE DAYS FROM SIGNING & OVEN/HOOD SITUATION STILL

Don’t sign till you get all your answers…this could be very costly after the fact
Make an appointment and have bldg and fm come out to physically inspect

Also, if you go the route of an new hood make sure to oversize it for the Roto-flex down the road…luckily we did otherwise it woulda been a disaster

I guess it all depends where you are located, but I thought for a pizza oven all that is needed is a canopy hood, not one with fire suppression.

Also, get a grasp on your make-up air situation…if not your winters will be toasty but you will be hurtin the other half of the year.

When I did my install CFM’s were what the local bldg dept were most concerned about.

Good Luck!
 
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Re: THREE DAYS FROM SIGNING & OVEN/HOOD SITUATION STILL

famouspizza states

I guess it all depends where you are located, but I thought for a pizza oven all that is needed is a canopy hood, not one with fire suppression.

GM: You are correct, the national code classifies pizza ovens as a non grease producing unit that does not require a fire protection system. The local Fire Marshal has the option of requiring fire protection and many do.

FP:Also, get a grasp on your make-up air situation…if not your winters will be toasty but you will be hurtin the other half of the year.

GN :Correct again, most make up air units are equipped to warm the air in winter but almost none are equipped to cool summer air. The result is that super hot air off the roof is blasted in to your kitchen in the summer.

FP:When I did my install CFM’s were what the local bldg. dept. were most concerned about

GM: Correct again. The building code has high exhaust and matching make up air requirements for hoods. There is an exception made for “certified Hoods” that have been tested by UL or ETL and their design certified to operate correctly at lower CFM exhaust and make up air. We furnish certified hoods to our pizza clients that require so little CFM be extracted from the building itself that a 5 ton air conditioning system in most jurisdictions can supply all the air needed with out a make up air unit.

George Mills
 
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Re: THREE DAYS FROM SIGNING & OVEN/HOOD SITUATION STILL

Pizzatony is correct:

Any company selling you a hood should supply all the drawings required. We do the same plus complete equipment layouts for pizza shops with plumbing and electrical rough in plans and specifications for all equipment to be used included.

George Mills
 
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Re: THREE DAYS FROM SIGNING & OVEN/HOOD SITUATION STILL

Hello deal killer,I have double stacked LP 1000’s sitting under an 8’wx6’deep hood w/ no suppression system due to no grease will be used in ovens.And for the best crust you’ll ever get out of a conveyer oven you must buy from PIZZATOOLS.COM black anodized screens which will cost about 12-15.00 ea…But have them send you a sample screen and once you try it I promise you you’ll use nothing other than this.Run it @ 5.45 min@545’ and you should have an awesome product but this is just a starting point w/ this time and speed but it should be typically close.
Niccademo
 
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