Welfare

[GMAC]

Just have to vent here. Two situations. (1) the police came into one of our stores to check on an employee. Turns out the employee was an illegal using the soc security number of someone else. We thought it was odd that the police, nor anybody else said anything about the situation or contacted the owners (me). So we terminate the employee. Today she brings us a form that she wants signed. She apparently has 4 kids and “apparently no husband” and now that she is out of work she can INCREASE her current welfare payments. Is this a great country or what?
(2) A short time ago we had another female employee who was an Anglo citizen. she was not a good worker nor did she see the need to show up on time very often and sometimes not at all. We terminate her. Here comes the welfare thing again only this time we are contacted by phone. This employee recently purchased a new SUV (smart choice huh?) and had several children and supposedly was not married. We questioned the welfare department. This woman gave all the signals of wanting to be terminated, she buys a new SUV, has kids, supposedly no husband. We asked what the story is here? They just said, “well, she really needs the money because she has kids”.

I am starting to get this feeling that maybe it might be best to sell the pizza places and collect welfare, food stamps and all the other goodies out there. From what I am seeing it is incredibly easy to qualify for all of these benefits and it really doesn’t make any difference if you are a citizen or not. I can see it now. I will get me some subsidized housing, sign up for all the welfare benefits, food stamps, etc. and just kick back. If I need extra cash I will go get a job and try to get fired and then go collect unemployment.

I am thinking its time to go to the ballot box and vote OUT every existing politician in office. Too many years of this and it is killing this country. And it is spreading to even legitimate citizens with jobs. Its seems that more and more people think that the government owes them for a long list of needs. Well, the “government” is you and me and we are paying for all of this foolishness. Politicians want a nation of people dependent on government because this ensures that they will remain in office. Look at they ones running for office this coming election in various capacities. They are promising something for everyone. They are either flat out lying or they intend to take much more of our hard earned money. They love the mantra of “we will take it from the rich”. What are the statistics? The “rich”, like maybe the top 10% of the population, are already paying close to 90% of the taxes in this country. I suspect that the next group of “rich” is small business given the number of new taxes that are being proposed on small business. And small business provides something like 75% of the jobs in this country.

 

[Charles]

GMAC:

I am thinking its time to go to the ballot box and vote OUT every existing politician in office.

Good luck!

 

[PIZZAMAGOO]

Don’t forget to pump out some extra children as well because that is sure to get you more free money, food, and better housing!

 

[Rick_G]

PIZZAMAGOO:

Don’t forget to pump out some extra children as well because that is sure to get you more free money, food, and better housing!

Wife won’t buy into that one.

 

[Charles]

GMAC:

And small business provides something like 75% of the jobs in this country.

“Small firms employed 50.9 percent of the nation’s non-farm private labor force in 2004. The nation had an estimated total of 26.8 million small businesses in 2006. All but 17,000 of these were small, representing 99.7 percent of all employer firms. (Sources: U.S. Dept. of Labor, Employment and Training Administration; U.S. Dept. of Commerce, Census Bureau; U.S. Dept. of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics.)”

 

[RobT]

I’ve always said, We should have these people “Fixed”, so they can no longer take advantage of the system.

Tie the tubes, and vasectomies. Think of all the money this country would save…

Heck, i think we would be able to fund the bailout.

 

[Charles]

Watch the movie, “Idiocracy”. Very funny.

 

[GMAC]

"I’ve always said, We should have these people “Fixed”, so they can no longer take advantage of the system.

Tie the tubes, and vasectomies. Think of all the money this country would save…"

Just like with the bailout, ya gotta go to the root cause and these people are not at the root; they are simply manifestations. With the bailout you can talk about some of the greedy, slimy sobs at some of these companies but the root cause is the politicians. In late 2004 and on the floor of Congress, the problems with Fannie Mae, etc. was put right in front of them and Congress did nothing. Too many people were getting to much money in contributions from Fannie Mae, etc. They denied the report about the fraud because they were making a killing. Jim Johnson and Franklin Raines walked away with millions of bonus money they received because of their fraudulent acts. Where is the investigation? Where are the testimonies under oath before Congress? There is no evidence that the root cause is going to be addressed. The very people who caused the problem are now in the middle of “fixing” the problem. They cannot even address this bailout cleanly as I read they have included more millions for stuff not related to the bailout. I keep thinking about the charts somebody posted of the percentage of Congressmen who are re-elected each term. We are getting what we deserve because not enough of us read or think about what or who we are voting for. And there are others who listen to their politicians promise them more and more freebies so they continue to re-elect the crooks. What is more incredulous is to see some of these Congressmen get caught red handed doing something illegal and then get re-elected. How dumb are we? (Dumb enough to fall for this junk time and again) Forget the party affiliation, if they betray the public trust then they should be thrown out of office.

 

[Charles]

I had a professor in college once that said they need to quit “getting out the vote” because all the stupid people were coming out to vote. :lol: He felt it made much more sense to encourage everyone to stay home so that only the people who really studied the issues would care enough to vote.

 

[GMAC]

Re: College professor and the dumb vote

Now that is an interesting theory and so surprising coming from a college professor. But I am wondering if we are bypassing the “root cause” issue again here. Somebody said a few years ago that the greatest failing of our schools is that they are teaching students WHAT to think instead of HOW to think. He theorized that students coming out of schools today are not being taught how to think inductively or deductively. When they leave school and enter the real world they are not prepared to witness events and draw any logical conclusions. In other words they cannot connect the dots he said. Nor can they witness a major event or issue and deduce what might have caused it or contributed to it. Of course this is aside from the fact that most schools are indoctrinating students to pre-conceived ideologies. They usually freely discuss their political affiliations and set about to indoctrinate each of their students according to the view of their personal and political preferences. When I was in school (many years ago) I never knew the political affiliation of my teachers nor any of their personal views. In the main they would present different viewpoints and help us to think through the aspects of each. If there was any ideology influence it came from my parents. And my parents made sure that I understood how to think things through.

So maybe some of these “dumb voters” are not really dumb so much as they have not be given the tools to help them think. And maybe they have not been motivated to think since their teachers are doing their thinking for them. When they become adults their thinking and positions become whatever the t.v. news channels are giving them.

In my case I don’t necessarily think I have all the correct positions on things political but at least I have thought out reasons why I believe what I do. I will back my particular candidate and there will be thinking and research behind my support. If others back another candidate I like to talk about it so that maybe I can discover something I am missing. To me, what is absolutely astonishing is to ask somebody why they back a particular candidate and they shrug their shoulders, or say they like his smile, or maybe that he just sounds good and makes them feel good. Many people display no indication that they have any idea about what the candidate’s positions or proposals are. He could be a Communist or a Socialist or whatever and something they would not support but they would be voting for him because of something superficial. I think these are some of the most dangerous voters and they are the first to cry when they get results they never wished for.

Can we go back to the school issue? In our businesses we are around young people most of the time. I listen and something I ask questions about different things. Invariably these kids know almost nothing about the history of their country whether political or not. History tells us what has worked and what has not. History gives us an understanding that there are sacrifices and work involved in maintaining a free country like ours. History reveals to us that there are always those who will want to take what we have and will seek to dominate us. It will also reveal that these people (enemies) throughout history are deterred only by force. Force is the only thing they respect. Of course this lesson can also be learned in the school yard from around 5th grade or so. The school yard bully respects only force or firm authority (which is also force) but that authority has to have teeth. Do a test and ask some young employees some very simple questions about history and see what they know. Far too many of them will not know what our ancestors did to provide what we enjoy today and all of us are endangered because of this ignorance.

 

[bapizza]

GMAC:

This woman gave all the signals of wanting to be terminated, she buys a new SUV, has kids, supposedly no husband. We asked what the story is here? They just said, “well, she really needs the money because she has kids”.

Sounds like something out of Atlas Shrugged
Come to Vermont! “The Welfare State”. I can’t get anyone to work more than 29 hours because it will affect their benefits!

 

[PIZZAMAGOO]

I do agree that most of the schools around just teach kids what to think, and not how to think. I still am a firm believer that education does not stop at the front door of the school, parents must take the blame here just as well! It is a huge effort to turn a child into a great adult, but for some reason most people just can’t be bothered with this any longer!!!???

 

[wa_dave]

You are not alone with your welfare mentality. We have exactly the same here in Australia. I ahd an assistant manger, unmarried mother with one child, who is living with the father, decides she doesn’t want to work anymore and just doesn’t turn up again. I hear on the grapevine that she gets more money in benefits as a single mum than the reasonable wage she got with us. To top it off she lives with her boyfriend who is on good money and she only has her son on weekends, but still claims the benefits.

We also have the problem with our indigenous aborigials who get massive governmnet subsidies and welfare payments equal to the average wage. They complain about their high unemployment but they don’t need to work as they get paid more in benefits than working.

Without being racists, there is a common joke about an aboriginal walking along the beach and he finds a barnacle encrusted bottle. He starts to clean it and out pops a genie who grants him 3 wishes. 1st He doesn’t want to be an aboriginal anymore so the genie turns him into a white man. 2nd he wants a beautiful group of ladies at his side … granted. 3rd and final wish is a combination of lifestyle. He asks for a house he doesn’t have to pay for, all the leisure time he wants, plenty of money in his pocket and never having to work in his life. Whosh … the genie turns him back into an aboriginal.

Sad but a true reflection on fact.

There are so many people who “milk” the system while fellow hard working small busines owners scrap for a living putting everything they have on line. And all the politicians do is milk us dry and put barriers in our way.

You should’ve started this thread.

Dave

 

[GMAC]

Sounds like something out of Atlas Shrugged
Come to Vermont! “The Welfare State”. I can’t get anyone to work more than 29 hours because it will affect their benefits!​

ATLAS SHRUGGED, should be a must read for every student in school. Most would probably ban it. I used to pay my kids when they were in school to read certain books. I think $25 was the bonus for Atlas Shrugged.

That is amazing about Vermont. Hard to believe this is happening in this country. I see where France is trying to get their work week back to 40 hours. The reduced work week and increased benefits is apparently killing them. Somewhat the same in Germany I understand. Socialism does not work anywhere in the world but our politicians insist on pushing us toward it as much as they can. Looks as if states like Vermont might get there before the rest of us.

 

[ruth_more]

lol - doesn’t look like capitalism is working too well either right now.

 

[GMAC]

Wa Dave…Maybe you have a point about starting the thread and I thought about that but does it not strike to the heart of things that we face as restaurant operators? If do not try to turn the tide of events we are all going to be in trouble. I have read your posts about all the labor problems you have down there. I feel bad for you because we all know how hard it is to be in this business. At the same time it concerns me because this is where we are headed in the states. Incidentally, we have our own indigenous population of American Indians with many of the same issues.

One of the problems is that politicians play to our worst instincts. They promise to give us something for nothing and many of us go for it not realizing that the price is our personal destruction. In this country it has become very financially rewarding to be a politician. Even good people often fall prey to the money, celebrity and the power and they do everything to keep their positions; sometimes resorting to the unethical and/or illegal and many of them get away with it.

The book, Atlas Shrugged was mentioned in another post. I have always remembered one particular statement or conversation in the book that is frighteningly close to what is happening in our country. It said that there are producers among us. They work, create and build because it is inherent in their nature and no matter what happens this is who there are and what they will remain until they are broken or die. Then there are the welfare state people (not an exact remembrance here) who continually increase the burden on the producers to provide for the welfare state. The welfare state continues to grow (the people who impose–(government), and the people who sign on to being supported by the welfare state) and the weight of it begins to crush the producers who have become the minority. The producers know what is happening but they continue to produce and be who they are. They are incapable of changing to people who are dependent on government for their existence. So they know they are dying but they will continue to produce until they expire.

In the states we also have a massive welfare system that is out of control. You don’t even have to be a citizen to receive medical care and a long list of other welfare benefits. We have a social security system that each of us pays into during our working years and is supposed to take care of us in our old age. The problem is that our politicians through the years have seen fit to “borrow” the money for their massive spending programs so much of social security fund is just government I.O.U’s.
But, as said before, we deserve what we get. This is not a country where the military is walking the streets intimidating citizens to keep order. And we still have the right of free speech. So we, as a people, still have choices we can make that can effect our current and future circumstances. We can act to improve things without fear of being imprisoned, or worse, as opposed to some other countries. But apparently that is not the direction we are going. We take much for granted and are not actively protecting our freedoms. If people do not actively protect their freedoms then they will be lost. History tells us that. If we fail to vote we hasten the decline. If we fail to understand who we are voting for then people who are not working for the best interests of the country and our families are going to be elected to positions of power. And we begin to lose our freedoms just a little bit at a time. Then we wake up one day to realize that we no longer have choices or freedom. It takes personal effort to read and think about things which effect our country and our personal lives but fewer are willing to extend that effort. It takes time to educate ourselves in these matters but fewer think its worth it. All of this begins in the home; in the family environment where values are passed on to children. In our country there is a movement to have children in pre-schools rather than at home to learn values. The same system that now indoctrinates our regular school students will be indoctrinating pre-schoolers.

 

[GMAC]

lol - doesn’t look like capitalism is working too well either right now.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Point taken but I suspect it is not that capitalism is not working. What is happening is not capitalism. Today’s crisis was not caused by capitalism it was caused by politicians meddling in the capitalistic process. Politicians pressured banks to give mortgages to people who could not afford to pay them back and in places where it made little sense to make loans. Many in the financial sector, to be sure, used that pressure to make a lot of money. Politicians despite the warnings years ago stood by and allowed Fannie Mae to buy all of the bad mortgages. Then the people running Fannie Mae cooked the books showing assets they did not have and profits they did not make so that they could make millions of dollars in bonuses fraudulently. But some politicians in power were receiving large contributions from Fannie Mae so they said there was no problem at Fannie Mae. And it does not appear that the people at Fannie Mae who committed this fraud are going to be held to account. And why would that be? What is preventing an investigation?

This is not capitalism.

Then the fix. The taxpayers are going to bail out the banks and have bailed out the huge AIG insurance company and in all probability leaving the people who run those institutions in control. And we are loaning 25 billion dollars to the car companies at below market rates.

None of this is capitalism. This would be more correctly termed Socialism.

 

[ruth_more]

I don’t think you can call deregulated capitalism socialism. The drive for profit is not socialism. Where governments have tried socialism they have also suffered from greedy as hell politicians - dictatorship, corruption. The fact is, what a system looks like on paper is not what you get when human nature starts meddling with it.

There is a lot of talk about free market capitalism and letting the market take care of things - but that is not what we have had. Wherever you have government subsidies - and I’m not talking welfare to people, that is only a tiny fraction of the cost of CORPORATE welfare - subsidizing industries, tax breaks, etc. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_welfare) - wherever you have that kind of subsidy, you don’t have free market capitalism. The legislature, not the market, is making decisions and controlling things. But I wouldn’t call that socialism, because the control is not for the benefit of the people, but for corporations, and so the elite that own them and profit from them.

It’s like they say, power corrupts. The greed in human nature is the problem, and it raises its head whether the system is socialist or capitalist or a blend.

 

[Charles]

bapizza:

Sounds like something out of Atlas Shrugged
Come to Vermont! “The Welfare State”. I can’t get anyone to work more than 29 hours because it will affect their benefits!

Wow! 5th in the country! Thank God I am in Texas! (Just don’t look at our educational rankings…)

 

[NicksPizza]

ruth more:

lol - doesn’t look like capitalism is working too well either right now.

Our version of Socialize capitalism isn’t working, for sure. We do seem to have, as a society, less and less stomach for letting fail those who genuinely should fail. Lots of propping up and tax-based programs to complicate the free market out there. Add in liberal sprinklings of US Govt subsidy manipulations, fuel increases, Chinese surge and flop, Japanese investment capital and unionized wage inflation . . . and you get a pretty complicate marketplace that isn’t as much pure capitalism as it once was. Not saying any of this is evil . . . just complicates the marketplace.

Governmental/legislation forces will make profound and long reaching effects in the marketplace (see the minimum wage increases in US), many of which will not be predicted. Government mandates don’t interact so well all the time with a capitalism economy. Recent gov’t actions (and promises of action) socially and economically that seem on their surface to be more ‘socialistic’ are having profound impacts on the US marketplace.