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Whoaaaaa!!! Wait a minute Dave. Let’s clear something up here brotha. What’s this all about:
granted in OZ we don’t eat as much pizza or as often as in the US
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You tryin’ to say we’re fatter? Why ya always gotta be picking on the fat kid?

-J_r0kk
 
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j_r0kk:
Whoaaaaa!!! Wait a minute Dave. Let’s clear something up here brotha. What’s this all about:
granted in OZ we don’t eat as much pizza or as often as in the US
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You tryin’ to say we’re fatter? Why ya always gotta be picking on the fat kid?

-J_r0kk
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Nah mate. We just eat more Maccas and other crap. :cry: Pizza is still not as popular as in the US, but I must say we are seeing a lot more customers coming in more frequently than before 🙂

Everyone will soon be picking on us soon as OZ is now rated the second highest obesity problem nation behind the US – and catching fast.

And who is pointg the finger at who??? My mates call me “the dwarf” and my ex co-workers called me “Pappa Smurf” because I’m 5’5" and weight 190lb - all muscle except for the fat head :lol:

When I used go to the beach and lie on the waters edge the wildlife rangers kept trying to roll me back in the water thinking I was a stranded whale 😛
Dave
 
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Grew up in Royal Oak, just north of the Eminem’s famous 8 mile…used to drag race on Woodward Ave in the late '60’s early 70’s…

Buddy’s & Buscemi’s were the best and Little Caesar’s had “Pizza Pizza” and as I recall, it was quite good…no Domino’s yet…

Used 2 work in Allen Park for a while…doing 3rd shift metal work…didn’t last long…

Opened a 300 seat TGIF style operation in the late ‘70’s in Livonia doing pizza/ribs/burgers & played PakMan on a 10’ screen…

after my stint in the USMC I found myself back in Plymouth/Novi as an F & B Director in '82…

My brother still works in the Southgate area for Old Country Buffet…
 
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Wow! I grew up and still live in Allen Park. My son loves the Old Country Buffet in Southgate. I drag raced on Telegraph, lol! Well at least you have a good idea of what I am up against. I think some of the others just don’t get how crowded everything is. I am gonna try to find a scanner to use to scan in competitors menus and coupons. Then maybe some will understand what I am facing.
 
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Kyle:
Well at least you have a good idea of what I am up against. I think some of the others just don’t get how crowded everything is. I am gonna try to find a scanner to use to scan in competitors menus and coupons. Then maybe some will understand what I am facing.
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Don’t miss all those people out there who have been saying this is a losing cause and advising all sorts of alternatives and suggestions that there is too much competition. At least some of us know what the marketplace looks like. That why we’re saying to stop and cut losses.

The numbers I put together are a general picture. Like Dave said, in a crowded market like yours, the fight for scraps will be brutal. In the best of situations, playing the low price/high volume game is risky. Playing it in such a crowded marketplace, that even you are saying is so much worse than we realize :shock: , is setting you up for a long battle that may cost wayyyy too much to win if you can ‘win’ at all (see pyrrhic victory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic_victory).
 
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Kyle:
I am in Taylor 48180. There are absolutely 50 pizzerias in my area. FOR SURE! I bet in a 3 mile radius alone there are 35 and 5 miles it is for sure 50.

I am at 11054 Allen Road in Taylor. Southgate is across the street from me as is Allen Park (kitty-corner). Go ahead and check the demo #'s I would be interested in them too!
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I just did a search for pizza from your address. There are a staggering amount of pizza shops within 5 miles. That’s amazing. I think with that many shops, a price war was inevitable. From what you’re describing, it looks like that’s what happened. Are you sure the lowball specials and $3.99 pizzas aren’t a result of the pizza market there being over saturated as opposed to demographics?

If you put 50 shops in a small radius, they can’t possibly differentiate themselves. There just aren’t enough different types of pizza concepts or products. In economic terms, the market is leaning toward “perfect competition” … there’s very little differentiation and the product has become a commodity. When that happens, all normal profit will be lost as each store continues to drop prices to stay alive. I honestly think that’s what’s happening here.

I have no idea why you’d want to be in that fight. This market needs to LOSE some pizza joints. A few with deep pockets will survive and prosper once the rest are gone. Are you certain you can be one of those?

I think Nick nailed it on the head. A “Pyrrhic Victory” may be the BEST possible outcome.
 
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Kyle:
I am in Taylor 48180. There are absolutely 50 pizzerias in my area. FOR SURE! I bet in a 3 mile radius alone there are 35 and 5 miles it is for sure 50.

I am at 11054 Allen Road in Taylor. Southgate is across the street from me as is Allen Park (kitty-corner). Go ahead and check the demo #'s I would be interested in them too!
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Sounds like a great opportunity for a Wing Joint ! 😉
 
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This has been an interesting discussion…but i must say I’m disheartened to see us in the industry selling pizzas at 3, 4 and 5.00…We are in an economy that has many things stacked against us with minimum wage laws, skyrocketing food costs and rising energy costs… i too am from Michigan…but from the west side of the state…A Quality pizza shouldn’t be sacrificed at a loss price…We have all heard the jokes about the ceasars 5.00 pizza…the facts remain we cannot grow a quality customer base on low price pizza…As an industry how and why are we part of this…the base price for a pizza has remained relatively flat for the last 10 years and the last 5 has begun to works it way even lower…Why is it alright to take your family of 4 to McDonald’s and spend 20.00 and yet we justify 4 or 5.00 pizzas…something is wrong here…pizza is an American tradition,families love a good pizza. We have trained the consumer that they can win at these wars between pizza chains…they can eat pizza 2 nights a week for 10 bucks…compare the price of a big Mac…the Big Mac has 6 price increases over the past 14 months all small but the big mac is nearing 3 bucks…wrapped in paper,thrown on a grill and placed in a 2 cent container,and we are trying to sell pizzas for 3, 4,5 bucks that include recipes made with pride.quality products and many of them made from scratch…people in the pizza industry …i believe are some of the most creative in the food industry…How many different ways can you make a Burger…there are a 1000 pizzas recipes out there…all unique…it concerns me that we are sacrificing our industry and playing right into the hands of the ceazers and Mcdonalds…ceasars to a point can survive on a 5.00 pizza but if we build a customer base on a 5.00 pizza where do we go from there? We are better than the cheap price stuff…jopi
 
Kyle,why don’t you work on getting your business jumping as much as you got this board jumping. You obviously have all the answers. Now, head down and choppy choppy!
 
Not all locations/markets can support or deserve a “higher” priced pizza…

I’m struggling making a decision because the new location is non-traditional, a C-store - I don’t feel I can charge “top” dollar in this setting…

Like LC’s - no seating 2 speak of…

I may indeed benefit w/a LC model - no delivery/30% FC/Grab & Go…

I believe I can “bang” out the volume required for a profitable operation, just as LC does, but with my “perceived” quality quotient…

Its a challenge to find/keep drivers in our area as well and we all know how expensive delivery operations are…why should my take out customers pay higher prices than my delivery customers?

We know quality suffers w/delivered pizzas, so do I still charge a premium price for a sub-par delivered pizza?

Our job is to make/serve the product the market wants, not us…
 
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jopi:
This has been an interesting discussion…but i must say I’m disheartened to see us in the industry selling pizzas at 3, 4 and 5.00…
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Why? McDonald’s sells a burger for a buck. Chili’s sells a burger for $5 or $6. I see no real difference between the burger market and the pizza market. Some people will pay for a better product, some won’t.
 
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snowman:
Why? McDonald’s sells a burger for a buck. Chili’s sells a burger for $5 or $6. I see no real difference between the burger market and the pizza market. Some people will pay for a better product, some won’t.
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Yup. McDonalds/Burger King/Wendys/WhiteCastle/Krystal versus places like Red Robin and Fudrucker’s . . . . you got the cheap, quick model and the higher grade, higher priced model. There are lots of other examples, I am sure, but these are the ones in my neck of the woods.

Both groups sell different products and have a different business model.
 
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😃 to compete do something different–go to a larger pizza, advertise, advertise and advertise, but still charge 9.99 use better products better bread smile and kiss ass it will grow no matter what business–if you try to compete with price, you will lose
 
as I play the Devil’s Advocate…

we know making our own dough costs just pennies/oz.

fresh pack tomato sauce is slightly higher than reprocessed…

various grades/tastes in cheese, the most costly ingredient in building a pie…

so if a decent pie costs $1.50-$2.00 to build - why do we try to get $12 for it?

you figure just for the “ambience?” or service personal for table or home delivery?

if you have no delivery, no seating - only carry-out why not a “cost-effective” pizza?

if we use pizza as a “loss leader” and have decent margins on other products, is that a flawed business strategy?
 
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Patriot'sPizza:
as I play the Devil’s Advocate…

so if a decent pie costs $1.50-$2.00 to build - why do we try to get $12 for it?

you figure just for the “ambience?” or service personal for table or home delivery?

if you have no delivery, no seating - only carry-out why not a “cost-effective” pizza?
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I’d say that if you run a tiny/lean operation, then whatever it takes to get your fixed costs (rent/utilities/labor/insurance/etc) plus food costs plus desired profit margin will make sense. Hard to imagine making enough pies to make my margins at $5 or $6, but some people cna do it.

It’s the balance game. We put more into COGS and facilities to justify the higher price point so that we can make our margins on fewer pies. I could not, with current marketplacve, labor and equipment, move enough product to meet costs of everything. HOWEVER< Kyle, or Patriot’s or someone else in a different market might be able to.

And they should not be villified for it. Especially if it is a great pie!
 
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hi everybody, this is my first post. sorry for butting in. I kind of agree with kyle here. anyway, with the four p’s is a fifth one which is persistence. a business is also a living organism, feeding from its environment. so i think its okay if kyle reacts to his competitors’ prices. If you could actually bring down your food cost and not bring down the quality drastically then do it. I think this aspect of the business is where we need persistence, by continually looking for cheaper innovations but not sacrificing quality.
I also believe in some places businesses don’t follow the “traditional pricing strategy”, like pricing some of their menu items a little over the cost, and still manage to make good money. Especially in a place like kyle’s I think thats the case.
 
The flaw in trying to use pizza as a loss leader in order to make your margins on other products is that most places sell much more pizza than the other products. It is now nearly impossible to make a decent large pizza for $1.50. With most of us paying over 14 cents per ounce for cheese, you won’t get to $1.50 unless you skimp and then you don’t have a decen’t product. See Howies discussion.
 
Anonymous:
The flaw in trying to use pizza as a loss leader in order to make your margins on other products is that most places sell much more pizza than the other products. It is now nearly impossible to make a decent large pizza for $1.50. With most of us paying over 14 cents per ounce for cheese, you won’t get to $1.50 unless you skimp and then you don’t have a decen’t product. See Howies discussion.
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maybe 1.50 wouldn’t be a good idea, i think that’s an exaggeration. kyle, you don’t have to change all your pizza prices. just make a pizza that has a lesser cost and add that to the menu if you like to sell really cheap pizza. I agree also that we shouldn’t make pizza as a loss leader in order to make your margins on other products, so just try to make a pizza that has a low cost but fairly good quality. otherwise, get out of that market segment and sell outrageously priced pizza. I would recommend just looking for a balance in your menu. read “menu: pricing and strategy” if you can find it. i find it helpful with balancing the menu.
one question… you could also sell your good quality pizza at a lower price. Why don’t you do that instead? if you’re gonna sell a ten dollar pizza that costs you 7 dollars, as opposed to selling a pizza for 3.99 that costs you 1.5 cents, wouldn’t you be earning more for each pizza sold with the ten dollar pizza that cost you 7 dollars? just an example though, just trying to explain an idea the best way I can. It would be good pizza though! 😃
 
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