What are a set of ps360q worth??
- Thread starter jokergerm
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George_Mills
New member
Hi Jokergerm;
Assuming you are going into or are in the pizza business. When someone buys the older model ovens (PS 360Q is 25 year technology no matter if produced fairly recently) they will pay for new ovens over a period of time.
The above is, because the newer ovens burn gas at 98% efficiency as opposed to 80 % for the older models.
Newer model have modulating gas valves which combined with the new burners improve gas burning efficiencies by up to 30%.
The older ovens use about twice the electricity to run the fans etc than the new models.
New models can be cleaned in a matter of minutes the PS-360q is a monster to clean, it is a matter of hours.
Because the 360 types are so difficult to clean they are usually not cleaned often enough, trash collects in the bottom of the oven and the operator ends up baking pizzas in a virtual garbage can.
The new style ovens usually have a two year parts and service warranty. Parts for the newer models now on the market are about 1/3 the cost of parts for the older models.
Used ovens on the market are usually cast offs from the major chains who have found them to expensive to operate.
The newer models produce better pizzas at lower temperatures and shorter bake times. Check recent posts by Tom The Dough Doc
George Mills
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well on that web site, they list the ps360q at 9000 a stack so thats 18000 for a double stack set…
not 9000 for a double stack.
anyways i did not think that a year 2000 oven was older
If you click the picture you will see that it says ovens are pictured as a doulbe stack and priced individually at 9k
not 9000 for a double stack.
anyways i did not think that a year 2000 oven was older
If you click the picture you will see that it says ovens are pictured as a doulbe stack and priced individually at 9k
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George_Mills
New member
[[quote="jokergerm
anyways I did not think that a year 2000 oven was older
Hi Jokergerm:
The oven is not older but the technology is pretty much the same as the 360 ovens of 20 years ago.
Middleby offers reconditioned ovens of that vintage for $22,999.00
That is a reasonable figure for a properly rebuilt 360 type oven. They are very costly to rebuild properly.
But they are still old technology and as Charles pointed out new XLT ovens are vastly superior, use the latest technology, cost a lot less to run and are not much more than many of the reconditioned units on the market and defiantly less than Middleby’s rebuilts.
George Mills
anyways I did not think that a year 2000 oven was older
Hi Jokergerm:
The oven is not older but the technology is pretty much the same as the 360 ovens of 20 years ago.
Middleby offers reconditioned ovens of that vintage for $22,999.00
That is a reasonable figure for a properly rebuilt 360 type oven. They are very costly to rebuild properly.
But they are still old technology and as Charles pointed out new XLT ovens are vastly superior, use the latest technology, cost a lot less to run and are not much more than many of the reconditioned units on the market and defiantly less than Middleby’s rebuilts.
George Mills
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perfect_pizzas
New member
George Mills:
I am tired of hearing some oven sellers talk about how much less electricity their oven uses. The cost you should be worried about is the gas.(natural or propane) How much does the blower and conveyor motor use in a a year? $50? $100? My gas bill is $12,000 a year. My air conditioning costs another $10,000 per year. I sure am happy that my XLT 3270 is saving me $50 a year on my electric bill. Middleby Marshall 360’s use less energy than XLT ovens. Let me say that again… MM 360’s use less energy than XLT ovens. They use less gas. The exhaust goes up a flue pipe and your store will require much less air conditioning. Which oven cooks better? Opinions are like a**holes. Everyone has one. I have seen some of the best pizzas coming out of MM360’s. Bofi XLT ovens also cook great pizza. I currently use an XLT 3270 and am delighted with the bake. Customer service is great. The only drawback is how hot the store is and how much heat comes out both ends of the oven.jokergerm:
Hi Jokergerm;
Assuming you are going into or are in the pizza business. When someone buys the older model ovens (PS 360Q is 25 year technology no matter if produced fairly recently) they will pay for new ovens over a period of time.
The above is, because the newer ovens burn gas at 98% efficiency as opposed to 80 % for the older models.
Newer model have modulating gas valves which combined with the new burners improve gas burning efficiencies by up to 30%.
The older ovens use about twice the electricity to run the fans etc than the new models.
New models can be cleaned in a matter of minutes the PS-360q is a monster to clean, it is a matter of hours.
Because the 360 types are so difficult to clean they are usually not cleaned often enough, trash collects in the bottom of the oven and the operator ends up baking pizzas in a virtual garbage can.
The new style ovens usually have a two year parts and service warranty. Parts for the newer models now on the market are about 1/3 the cost of parts for the older models.
Used ovens on the market are usually cast offs from the major chains who have found them to expensive to operate.
The newer models produce better pizzas at lower temperatures and shorter bake times. Check recent posts by Tom The Dough Doc
George Mills
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George_Mills
New member
Nameplate Electrical Energy Consumption Comparison between the Middleby PS555 and the XLT 3255-TS
I f a restaurant is open 12 hours per day for 360 days; that is 4,320 hours per year.
XLT-720 x 4320 / 1000 = 3,110.4 KWh/year* MM2496 x 4320 / 1000 = 10,782.7.6 KWh/year*
XLT$ / year electricity consumption = $258.16* MM $ / year electricity consumption = $894.97*
George Mills
Code:
XLT 3255-TS Middleby PS555
Voltage: 120 VAC Voltage: 208-240 VAC
Amperage: 6.0 Amperage: 12.0
Volts x Amps = Watts Volts x Amps = Watts
120 x 6.0 = 720 208 x 12.0 = 2496
Code:
Watt hours / yearXLT$ / year electricity consumption = $258.16* MM $ / year electricity consumption = $894.97*
- The US national average cost for electricity is 8.3 cents per kilowatt-hour (KWh). A Watt is a measure of electrical power and equals volts times amps. A kilowatt-hour (1000 Watt-hours) is the billable energy used. For example, if you used ten, 100-watt light bulbs for 1 hour, you used 1000 watts times 1 hour or 1 KWh.
George Mills
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George_Mills
New member
This part of my above post did not print as I had entered it and may not be clear I try again
XLT 3255-TS---------------------- --Middleby PS555
Voltage: 120 VAC -------------------Voltage: 208-240 VAC
Amperage: 6.0 ----------------------Amperage: 12.0
Volts x Amps = Watts ---------------Volts x Amps = Watts
120 x 6.0 = 720 ----------------------208 x 12.0 = 2496
gm
XLT 3255-TS---------------------- --Middleby PS555
Voltage: 120 VAC -------------------Voltage: 208-240 VAC
Amperage: 6.0 ----------------------Amperage: 12.0
Volts x Amps = Watts ---------------Volts x Amps = Watts
120 x 6.0 = 720 ----------------------208 x 12.0 = 2496
gm
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George_Mills
New member
perfect pizzas:
If you A/C is costing you $10,000.00 per and you have a problem of heat in the kitchen there is a possibility that your ventilation system is not extracting heat properly and is extracting a large amount of A/C out of your building.
Some hoods can pull thousands of CFM of air out of a building and , during summer, make up air systems most always are dumping thousands of CFM of super hot air off the roof into the kitchen.
There are solutions to those problems.
George Mills
Hi Perfect:
If you A/C is costing you $10,000.00 per and you have a problem of heat in the kitchen there is a possibility that your ventilation system is not extracting heat properly and is extracting a large amount of A/C out of your building.
Some hoods can pull thousands of CFM of air out of a building and , during summer, make up air systems most always are dumping thousands of CFM of super hot air off the roof into the kitchen.
There are solutions to those problems.
George Mills
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perfect_pizzas
New member
Well George, According to your math the XLT will save $700 per year in electric. We use an XLT and it burns over $10,000 a year in gas. One of our other stores in our chain uses MM360’s and they burn less than $5000/year in gas. With the amount of heat coming out of XLT ovens ends I have no doubt that the $700 savings in electrical is very quickly negated by the additional air conditioning used. I stand by my opinion that MM360 ovens are more efficient than XLT ovens and that the amount of electricity used by the blowers and conveyor moter is not nearly as important as the amount of gas burned and the amount of ac needed to counter the heat output. It would be nice if the windshield wipers and the air conditioning in my car used 70% less energy, but in the big picture, they aren’t much of a factor in the energy consumption of my car.
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NicksPizza
New member
perfect pizzas:
Just checking . . . are these comparable machines? I lose track of the conveyor model numbers. Want to make sure I am reading about apples vs apples instead of turnips.
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Wizzle_Wassell
New member
perfect pizzas:
However I’ve never had a problem with amount of heat coming out of the XLT I would say its less than the MM’s. I’m not saying this to start and arguement rather to suggest that maybe your set up isn’t correct. Based on having both (and I’ve said this two or three times on TT) If I had to buy another set of ovens now I’d go for XLT without a shadow of a doubt.
From my perpective XLT cooks a much better pie quicker, is way quieter, way easier to clean (in fact it doesn’t seem to get as dirty as the MM), and kicks out less heat (we don’t use air con as much and it is a much smaller shop).
I have double stack XLT in one store (18 months old) and doulble stack MM in my another store (3 years old). My energy bills are similar in both shops so I can’t really say that one is more efficient than the other as one shop is MUCH larger and has electric water heater and the other is much smaller shop with gas water heater.
However I’ve never had a problem with amount of heat coming out of the XLT I would say its less than the MM’s. I’m not saying this to start and arguement rather to suggest that maybe your set up isn’t correct. Based on having both (and I’ve said this two or three times on TT) If I had to buy another set of ovens now I’d go for XLT without a shadow of a doubt.
From my perpective XLT cooks a much better pie quicker, is way quieter, way easier to clean (in fact it doesn’t seem to get as dirty as the MM), and kicks out less heat (we don’t use air con as much and it is a much smaller shop).
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I also have a XLT 3270 and while I’m not so sure about the gas usage as it has never been used as my primary oven, it does put out a whole lot of heat out of the ends. So much so that it is hard to place anything wrapped in foil on the belt and open the foil without the heat getting too much for your hands to bear. It was such an issue that instead of replacing my Lincoln X-2 with a second XLT, I chose to replace them both with a triple stack of Edge 60 ovens. I still love the cook of the XLT, just can’t stand the heat it pushes out of both ends.
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Wizzle_Wassell
New member
Hi Paul
Its funny as I was going to comment that you had said about this issue previously. I never brought it up with you as i didn’t spot the post until quite a while after - I’m just really suprised at your comment as i just don;t have that issue - How far down did you have the guards down at the end of the oven tunnel?
Perhaps George can comment on this?
Its funny as I was going to comment that you had said about this issue previously. I never brought it up with you as i didn’t spot the post until quite a while after - I’m just really suprised at your comment as i just don;t have that issue - How far down did you have the guards down at the end of the oven tunnel?
Perhaps George can comment on this?
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